A demonstration of strength? Royal Navy exercise Strike Warrior 2024

The slow integration of weapons is indeed a huge problem: and something that people who question whether we should keep and maintain sovereign capability, and say we should buy US solutions off the shelf should take note of!

I wonder if the integration of weapons is a commercial issue. We haven’t ordered the planes we are supposed to of and integration is slow. If you think they limited the entire F35 family for the sake of the ‘B’ whose primary customers was always intended to be the US marines and the UK… I would understand why Lockheed might be going slow on integrating UK weapons

The article says they qualified 19 pilots. With four planes over a week. With Cats and Traps it would be a damn sight longer to qualify those guys.

The B version orders are small compared to the A. We are lucky the US Marines pushed for it else we would not be in the carrier game

Indeed there will be far more F35Bs at sea than there will be f35C.

there will only every be 10 f35C carriers with one squadron each. But there is likely to be 17ish f35B carriers with 1-2 squadrons each.

And we couldn’t have afforded two carriers ££££££££££

And we couldn’t have afforded to train and keep current enough pilots ££££££

You also need a catapult crew £££

So a huge lot of £££££££& needed when there was a cut in ££££ available.

As it is we just need to focus on getting more F35B with the armaments we require….now compared to the Russian or Iranian carriers….oh wait….

I really don’t get the obsession with the very slight range differences between Bravo and Charlie models – not worth worrying about TBH. Far more than the Chinese aircraft that can’t take off with more than a 50% fuel load due to poor engine thrust.

Hence all the discussions about very long range missiles being developed so the launch platform is well out of AAW range.

If you were to pursue AAR [which we should] then a secondary vessel that was drone orientated with a light catapult would be a better [and cheaper] solution than ripping QEC’s apart.

The problem billy is that CTOL is profoundly more expensive to operate than vertical launch and recovery. For a number of reasons

1) carrier qualification…as noted the Uk has just carrier qualified 19 pilots in a couple of weeks using 8 aircraft. The U.S. have there entire airwing having to fly continuously to get carrier qualification and and pilot needs to keep on that every week or they loss qualification. It’s why US carriers always have to have full air wings and undertake continuous air ops..that is profoundly expensive.
2) hawkeyes and growlers. Im nots sure where the budget would come for 2 new airframes..that’s two new training pipelines for crew ans ground crew, two new logistics piplines…there is a reason why the RN stuck its AEW on Merlin.it’s cheap as there is no new aircraft type to bring into commission…as for growlers..the f35 does not need growler types it does its own Electronic warfare…the USN needs growlers to support its fourth gen f18s.
3) ships crew, even the small Charles de Gaulle has a crew of 1300 vs 700 for the UK carriers..if you made them CTOL the crew requirement will go up significantly.

so as you can see the ongoing costs would be massive.

Although the UK would have better interoperability with the USN’s fleet carriers, they would have lost interoperability with the USN’s gator ships. There are more V/STOL ships than CATOBAR ones within our alliances.

I suppose that brings up the question of whether the Anadolu can take F-35Bs assuming the US will relent at some point in the next 25 years.

So what? Donate your salary first then ask for C.

My reply was to SB. Never wanted C either

Possible answer.

“The days of the gun are probably over for the way we do business,” according to a senior UK Royal Air Force (RAF) Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning pilot, speaking to an audience at the Farnborough Airshow on 19 July.

“The dogfight does occur,” said Air Commodore Jim Beck, “but it happens in the information space now. It’s all about, ‘Does my fusion engine get more information on him before his fusion engine can get information on me?’ And the person who wins that battle will win the fight.”

In terms of fighting at close quarters, “We don’t want to go there,” said Air Cdre Beck, “and we don’t need to go there because we will make sure we play to our advantages and not theirs.

“We have no intention of flying fourth-gen tactics. A good fourth-generation jet pulls lots of g . To pull lots of g you need big canards, you need big movement of lifting surfaces, and all of that is music to a fifth-gen pilot’s ears because it’s increased RCS [radar cross-section], so I’ll just detect it further away.

“So come the dogfight, we’ve won because we’re not going to dogfight. The best way you can win a fight is not to manoeuvre your jet; let fusion have a nice stable platform to look at it and say ‘Right, I’ve got you’.”

While the F-35A has an internal cannon, the UK’s F-35Bs can only carry a pod-mounted 25 mm GAU-22/A Gatling gun. This weapon is essentially for air-to-ground missions, and the UK has no plans to acquire it.

Dragonfire will be the cheaper option for the carriers and her escorts.

Starting from 2027 was the last I heard? Clearly, the testing phase has been very successful thus far.

How is that a solution for an F35B defending landing marines against drone swarms?

It isn’t is it. This might be at some point.
if all goes to plan.

LANCE

AH-64 Apache with a pod-mounted laser

It doesn’t matter if dogfights exist. It only matters if dogfights will exist. As BVR improves, the prevelance of dogfighting will only decline. It’s hard to argue against another tool in the box, but succumbing to too many “just in case” type arguments drives up the price and decreases the focus on doing well what it’s actually supposed to do.

It doesn’t have a large magazine. The centreline pod carries 220 unguided rounds. It’s no good buying lots of rounds if you can’t carry them.

I agree that we have a threat with a lot of partial solutions, one of which is gunnery. I’m just not convinced we should be degrading our scarce stealth fighters (the weapon pod impairs RCS) rather than remagining the use of Navy Wildcats, perhaps designing something a bit better than a .50 cal sticking out of an open door like the Army use. Maybe something wing mounted?

Could this have been another reason for not purchasing the gunpod?

“In July 2021, an USMC F-35B, which was deployed on the HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier in the Pacific Ocean, was forced to divert and land at Kadena Air Base because of unspecified issues with the gun pod, with the aircraft taxing to a remote area and with firefighters on standby as maintainers troubleshoot the problem.

The gun pod, technically known as the Gun Pod Unit (GPU) – 9/A (but also referred to simply as the GAU-22 gun pod by the USMC) has always been quite controversial, as both the F-35B and F-35C have to rely on this external device that, despite the “stealthy” shape is believed to induce a Radar Cross Section (RCS) degradation.

Another controversy is related to the ammo carried in the pod, 220 rounds, which is less than the ammo carried by the aircraft replaced by the F-35 (300 rounds on the Harrier, 412 on the Hornet and 578 on the Super Hornet). It should be noted that the F-35A carries even less ammo, just 180 rounds.”

Yes, while the flexible capabilities of the 25mm gun pod make it valuable for combat air patrol and close air support, integrating a similar capability onto naval ships—like the DS30M Mk2 —could strengthen their point-defense network. Coupling the DS30M with small arms and sea-to-air defense systems would create a more comprehensive, multi-layered defense that adapts to evolving threats over the long term. You wouldn’t want to waste a Sea Sparrow on a small drone when smaller arms would do the trick, and likewise, you wouldn’t expect a phalanx or DS30M to be shooting down a jet if the Sea Sparrow could fulfill that role.

Additionally, the role of electronic warfare (E-War) in countering these emerging threats is essential. Though not a ‘hard-kill’ solution, the effectiveness of ‘soft-kill’ E-War systems against unmanned targets might be all that it takes to greatly enhance operational security. This layered approach, combining kinetic and electronic defenses, might be the way forward as lessons from the War-in-Ukraine are showing.

Completely silly to use an F-35 with gun for air to ground.

Indeed. Roll on 2027!

I’m sure they have figured this out, or will before the final installation.
Hope all is well by the way!

Yes, a gun pod might have use against some drones, straffing of land targets or waterbourne pirates and just e something to fight with once everything else has been fired. Plus they’re detachable/attachable.

Everyone is suffering on that cross.

The issue is do you get the blessed Blk IV Sorted or do you keep tinkering with weapons integrations and thereby delay Blk IV?

When doing something complex trying to reduce Delta is the name of the game.

Even USN and USAF are getting annoyed with slow integrations. It isn’t just us!

Enough of the conspiracies.
The Americans are, like us, waiting in frustration for some of their latest weapons to be integrated for the F35. Most nations that have bought the F35 are waiting for specific munitions to be integrated. Last I checked, the Block 4 update is required for over 70 different weapons to be integrated.

The F35B is picking up more and more customers, it currently looks like Japan will acquire a large fleet than the 138 touted for the U.K.