HMS Queen Elizabeth arrived in Hamburg, Germany on Monday for a defence Engagement visit. HMS Prince of Wales will visit Liverpool in the first week of December and will be open to the public.
Willkommen in Deutschland
The Fleet Flagship will arrive at Hamburg’s Steinwerder port around 1500 on Monday afternoon and will be alongside for about a week. She will not be open to the public but will host local dignitaries, politicians and diplomats. The visit follows the signing of the Anglo-Germany Trinity House Agreement in October, committing both nations to greater cooperation on defence (from the Russian threat).
The arrival of the ship will be live-streamed here:
Prince on the Mersey
HMS Prince of Wales will make her second visit to her affiliated city of Liverpool in the first week of December (The ship is also affiliated to Bristol). She previously visited in February 2020, (main image above) just as the pandemic was taking hold. Despite the enormous interest in these vessels, neither aircraft carrier has been opened to the general public in the UK since they were commissioned, apart from HMS Prince of Wales’ visits to Liverpool.
There will be a rare Ship Open to Visitors (SOTV) event with ship berthed at the Liverpool Cruise Terminal and the public welcomed on board for two days, Saturday 7th and Sunday 8th December. The ship will open from 1030 and tickets can be booked for 15-minute intervals until 1530. Access will likely only include the hangar and flight deck.
Those wishing to go onboard will need to sign up for tickets in advance (£1.75 booking fee), now available here. **** Unfortunately all sold out as of 1430 on 19th November***
HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales met up recently off the coast of the UK. The first time they have been in company at sea since 2021.HMS Prince of Wales is expected at Glen Mallan shortly for another 4-day ammunition on-load soon, ahead of becoming the high-readiness carrier and the CSG25 deployment next year. She will return to Portsmouth for the Christmas period following the visit to Liverpool.
Nature lovers would have loved to see that sight a pair of rare White Elephants in their natural environment.
I take that as being sarcastic?
Very funny…and true :o)
How exactly
Why exactly are they white elephants.
Because sadly we can’t afford enough planes to go on them.. on deployments so far US has lent us planes & pilots!! Also to save money there are no launch catapults so our planes have reduced payloads. Also we can barely crew them. Also we don’t have enough escort ships to defend them and no on board missiles ..to cut costs.
They are VERY vulnerable in war but ok for parades. Sad but true..Google if you don’t believe.
You don’t half spout some crap
They’re no more vulnerable than any other carrier, US carriers don’t carry more than short range defence missiles, the Italian carrier does carry Aster 30s but that’s to make up for the woeful missile depth of most their escorts. We also generally aim to assemble at least 2 or 3 escorts for a CSG when Italy and France are only deploying 1 sometimes 2, yet I don’t see complaints about them.
Actually do some better googling because the F35B doesn’t have to operate with reduced payload, it’s designed to operate Stovl without catapult. It has marginally less than the F35C Catobar version but in stealth mode the difference is non existent.
Aircraft numbers are an issue but that is hardly the fault of the carriers.
Of course QE’s are much more vulnerable
So your nonsense excuse is admitting that despite USN carriers have more air defences they are like UK’s?!
And ignoring that besides Aster in their carrier italians have 76mm gun with guided rounds and many more escorts, all of them with Asters?
Carriers should not have to make up the bulk of air defence capacity in the carrier group, Italy may have more escorts but they are badly armed in missile depth and it does not deploy enough with its carriers.
But do you seriously believe our priority should be putting missiles on the qnlz class with all the other issues we have
So your tactic is to misrepresent what other people said.
Who said here that should be the “bulk”?
What we are saying here is that a carrier should have capable self defence against leakers. The first law of war is that combat changes every plan.
There are reports that a Houthi missile splashed 200m for USS Eisenhower for example.
What a bizarre take, based on what?
Those escorts have Aster 30 longer range missiles that can destroy the archer. They also have better guns.
They have 16 of those aster missiles, how’s that for dealing with leakers.
Yes the 76mm is very useful, we have CAMM for short to mid range defense though, and may make more use of gun base defenses in future designs after the T31 has proven them.
And that number is based on 2 recent carrier deployments by Italy and France, CdG deployed with a single horizon and Fremm, and Cavour a single Fremm.
I’m not misrepresenting, I was referring to your point about Cavour and Aster missiles, having to compensate for underarmed escorts
What are you going to cut to pay for carrier missile defence, they haven’t even been fitted with the 30mm they were designed for, no chance they cut a hole in it for missiles.
Cavour have 32 Aster and 2 76mm guns.
“And that number is based on 2 recent carrier deployments by Italy and France, CdG deployed with a single horizon and Fremm, and Cavour a single Fremm.”
In what bizarre world do you live that 2 recent peaceful deployments is statement that will be the same in war or even future or past deployments?
QE’s don’t need a hole for CAMM missiles, in Cavour the missiles are in 2 boxes outside the hull in opposite sides
Top view
Cavour is flat sided, it doesnt have sponsons like Qnlz class. There is going to be more to it than just strapping it to the side.
I don’t think it would have to be an issue, QE is a significantly bigger ship.
Errrr…well….where do I start about the DC issues with missiles on the exposed outer edge of a ship?
I mean if you fired one light weight missile into that you would have…a nightmare?
There is a reason the RN and USN protect VLS….
All USN launchers are also outside. Tell me a CVN with missile launchers not outside?
It is better to have missiles silos outside that if they explode do not damage the ship badly and also obviously can fire to outside.
Nice photo Alex. The Aster silos look like they’re potentially in the way when firing for landings from astern? I wonder why they didn’t put them more mid-forward starboard side? Same if on the QE carriers. Put the CAMM on a forward starboard flange structure, but the missile flight path envelope would have to very tightly controlled. Thales have just designed a RAM multi-purpose missile launcher (see Janes) that could take Martlet/Starstreak that could be useful and the SEA Ancilia decoy launcher could also be adapted for light SAM like Safran have recently done with a six Mistral and decoy mix mount (see Janes). The new French PA-NG carrier will have 4x40mm, plus Aster plus Mistral i believe? But it hasn’t been built yet? Heck, why don’t they just order another three T31s and we’ll call it quits on this one!! LOL.🤣
Any engineering it is a compromise.
Note that Italian Navy lands the F-35 vertically so it can be anywhere in the landing deck. If they start a “normal” landing they might just stopped landings, or maneuver the ship.
I was referring to the woefully underarmed escorts.
Bizarre world? It pays off to actually train with what youre going to use in wartime, like a decent sized CSG that the RN at least tries to achieve and gets hounded at for not deploying constantly, unlike the other 2 navies.
They have guns with guided rounds, yes they have less missiles silos but they have almost double the RN escorts, are more modern and their missiles have longer range.
Maybe you should check the Italian Navy exercises.
They don’t have double the escorts, currently they have 17, yes they plan more. But they’re not perfect.
It will be interesting to see if anything at all gets put on the four 30mm ring/mounts. It’s been suggested before and it’s a bit of rant from me, but an extra Phalanx on the starboard side for backup and overlap or even a couple of 40mm, plus some Ancilia mounts, would make some of us observer’s here a little less anxious. Beaut ships, just a little bit more “onboard” defensive protection please.
This is why we are building type 26 between us Canada and Australia
We can afford the planes. Lockheed Martin can only build 156 aircraft a year and with global demand at its peak the UK must wait its turn for its allocation. In addition, the Delays with TR3 software upgrade and supply chain issues has meant 2024 has seen the lowest number of F35’s delivered to the UK since deliveries started in 2018. We should receive another 12 over the next 18 months.
CSG 25 will deploy with 18-24 British jets next year, which is a normal peacetime deployment. We currently have some of the most advanced escort ships in the world and are building more with the first type 26 Frigate nearing completion and further type 26 and 31 currently being built.
The type 45 PPP programme is stepping up the pace with 3 destroyers now completed.
Also with Dock 9 at Devonport now completed we are now seeing the maintenance backlog of Astute Subs reducing, with 2 now ready again for deployment.
Things are not perfect but are very much heading in the right direction.
Even catapult launches have reduced payloads- usually fuel with a top up once in the air.
Not very vulnerable with escorts
Escorts can be damaged, have to retire, malfunction.
Defenses should be distributed.
Despite escorts an Houthi missile almost hit USS Eisenhower.
That claim about USS Eisenhower has been refuted by US navy.
“By some accounts, an ASBM or other missile arrived at a very shallow trajectory, with minimal warning, without a chance for interception, and splashing down around 200 meters from the Eisenhower.” National Interest
The Houthi propaganda made the claims and edited some footage. Even the way its described here isnt even credible …..minimal warning ? LOL
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/yemen-houthi-attack-disinformation-uss-eisenhower/
“The Houthi propaganda made the claims and edited some footage. ”
Maybe you should have a talk with CTC Sentinel (Combat Terrorist Center at West Point) because that is the original source in its October edition magazine. If you have read the National Interest article and followed its link.
You can read it online.
The USN still says ‘no way’. maybe at first the early ( and incomplete) information had that possibility.
When I saw ‘undetected’ I knew immediately it wasnt credible with the sensors carriers have ( high up) and its screen of destroyers and E-2 hawkeyes. They would have detected this missile at its launch!
You continue to think that there are no failures, mistakes, technical limitations and everything goes according to the plan and that the plan is perfect.
I guess the only reason you believe that an USN 40000t LHD burned at pier is because you can’t really deny it.
You’re talking utter garbage, the first batch of F35s will be done by early 2025 then we will be buying more. Honestly you people are idiots
Wow, so many incorrect and blatantly false statements in a single post…
Sad individual
There I told you. Starmer’s Euro-Fleet Sales tour. HMS POW to be renamed SMS Bismark. It has a kind of ‘told you so’ ring to it.
Or is it an attempt to demonstrate to Germany a capability that they will never provide, in an argument towards the UK taking the maritime role within NATO?
It will shame the German Navy, that’s for sure.
It was a Labour government that ordered the two carriers
This was the tories idea of ‘showboating’
Exactly right, but Boris did also announce the T32 and, oh wait, that’s not happening either.
Are you serious? weaving your starmer hate into ANY news story ?
No Starmer hate; in fact less than there has been ribbing against Bojo. Its called the market square or rough and tumble of politics. As Starmer is PM he causes how things happen in Defence and other fields.
After 14 years of huge cuts and serious effects – which will last for years more- dont you think only 6 months is too soon to change much ?
Wait till their Defence Review comes out
Both parties have been awful on defence.
Tony Blair that decided to fight two completely needless wars on a peace time budget which he then reduced. The Defence white paper 2004 was the one which set the size of the Royal Navy at 19 Escorts, including early retirement of the 3 T23s and reducing the T45s from 12 to 6. That government also doubled the size of the state and precipitated the financial crisis and bankrupt the country.
SDSR 2010 was an awful review and what austerity we had was felt by the armed forces. Equally the Tories had 14 years to sort stuff out and, well it’s got worse.
When the carrier visits Liverpool are tickets available or is it turn up to get onboard?
It says in the story
Wish they’d have an open day in their home port of Pompey!!
I’ll second that. Navy Days were great and must have been good for RN recruitment. In fact see above, I went on board Britannia as a guest of the CPO’s. I only saw the crew quarters. I think an ‘inshore’ Royal Yacht ( or State Yacht ) is OK by me.
Dvae
Quite right: the very few port vists that are open to the general public are always worth their weight in gold…
Funnily enough, a few years back, I was chatting to a senior RN captain about “how and why” she (yes, she) first decided to join the RN.
The RN currently has a recruitmenr problem = a VERY BIG recruitement problem
SO, ACTION THIS DAY PLEASE
Simple really. ………..Staggering nobody has ever thiought of it before…. .so who needs any of those quite-useless 4C capabilities
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
TLA a C4 Capability is Crap Capita Careers Computer
Capita DONT do any RN recruiting.
However they do handle shore training or onboarding as its called these days
you can thank RADM Halley for that process, but of course hes now a VADM and in charge of all defence people
They’ve been doing open days in Portsmouth.
In September my CCF section went aboard for a tour, they’d had over 1000 guests over the previous couple of days.
I’m trying to remain optimistic that SDR 2025 will retain both carriers, particularly after Albion and Bulwark being sacrificed by the RN as part of the defence cuts announced by the Secretary of State for Defence on 20 November. They were frequently referred to as two of the RNs four “capital ships”.
But General Barrons has always been a vocal opponent of “Carrier Strike”, and he is part of core SDR review team, with no Admiral included to offer a counter viewpoint. I wouldn’t like to bet too much of my money against one or even both of the carriers being sold if an attractive cash offer was anticipated. The UK seems to be only member of NATO reducing its defence spending, despite ministers trying to claim otherwise. After the budget, RUSI calculated that the UK’s 2025/26 defence budget would be 0.1% higher in real terms than 2024/2024, a reduction of 1-2% now seems far more likely.