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Iqbal Ahmed

Surely STRN mean helipcooter carrier?

In Captain Kyd’s own words:

‘’We are constrained by the F-35 buy rate even though that was accelerated in SDSR in 2015, so initial operating capability numbers in 2020 are going to be VERY MODEST indeed. We will FLESH IT OUT with helicopters, and a lot depends on how many USMC F-35s come on our first deployment in 2021. But by 2023, we are committed to 24 UK jets onboard, and after that it’s too far away to say.’

24 aircraft (maybe if Corbyn isn’t PM) by 2021. Take away aircraft on reconnaissance/air patrol around carriers and maintenance. Factor in the F-35’s poor availability and upgrade time and we are looking at less than a squadron. Not much of a strike capability, is it?

Stephen

Better than what 99% of country’s have, isn’t it?

You ONLY make negative comments, it is the ONLY reason you joined this site, you clearly have a vested interest in constantly attacking the Navy.

Grubbie

Half a capability is useless. You” pro” RN types seem to be hell bent on destroying it with glory programmes and a total lack of strategy. It’s immoral to send people into combat with half equipped ships.I’m just not prepared to take that criticism from those who got us into this mess.

Steve

Well, you “anti” RN types are hell bent on destroying the RN at any given opportunity. How about looking at the positives this time and celebrating what a fantastic achievement this is. First time since 2010, that’s awesome! A massive step forward; congratulations to all the people involved!

Grubbie

No its not. It’s going to wither away at vast cost owing to lack of political will to abandon it.Its not my fault, it’s the RNs fault.

Steve

What a senseless argument!

Dern

Hence why half of us believe the Iqbal is a Russian stooge, and the other half believe he is an ISIS sympathizer. And below you see why a lot of people think Grubbie is his alt account.

donald_of_tokyo

Good start. Very spacious flight-deck and smooth ski jump flight. Congraduration for all involved, and all UK people.

If 24 onboard in 2023, it will make up a great punch. “24 F35B” is far better than anything RN had after 1960.

It is much better than any airstrike French CV can provide. And, QNLZ still has a large space left for 9+5 Merlins.

Grubbie

Yeah, but who are you going to punch that isn’t going to punch you back?

Anthony D

Grubbie. Plenty of states have been on the recieving end of carrier strike since 1945 and not once has one been sunk. Change the record mate.

Grubbie

Sorry to be a bore.Same question as ever, try and think of a likely mission.Theres a good reason carrier’s haven’t attacked any powerful countries since 1945.

Dern

You are right. I believe the termyoi are looking for is nuclear weapons.

Steve

A massive use of the carrier, among others, is as a deterrent. Why do you think the US has invested in 12 carriers(and building more), China desparately trying to build several carriers as well as Russia, France and Italy all maintaining carriers??
Get real mate.

Darren

It’s down to ten and may be in the future 8, but still an important number. The build rate suggests 8 carriers at the moment. Should buy British!

Gerry

What are you drinking? Name a country with state of the art surface to surface missiles or submarines we have successfully used carrier strike against. Bombing Iraq, North Vietnam or Libya is yesterday s news.

Grubbie

Anti ship missiles can be obtained fairly quickly, the launch platform is more difficult. I wonder if you might be able to 3D print one in the not too distant future.

Darren

The body yep. If you can print the electronics for aim and control and propellant chemicals….?

Andy

The French cannot afford to deploy there carrier on a regular basis, and probably will not replace it as there port infrastructure is in a very poor state and there is no money to upgrade it to handle a new carrier.
It is accepted in French naval circles that it was a mistake to go nuclear with the de Gaulle as it has slowly bleed the naval budget dry .

Iqbal Ahmed

The carriers may yet be the death of the navy.

Britain simply dies t have the resources to cover a carrier group and normal naval obligations at the same time.

The only solution would be been to team up with an analogous power ie. France and share naval assets in unified deployments. The sum would be greater than the parts. That ship sailed though. So we are stuck ‘punching above our weight’. Or at least trying to.

Grubbie

Come off it Iqbal,even forming a carrier battle group is going to be a challenge!For starters, there won’t even be enough carrier’s to provide continuous cover.For some inexplicable reason the RN seems to think that they are invulnerable and won’t lose any ships despite losing 7 and being lucky not to lose twice that many in the Falklands.

Andy

If the Americans had not ‘lost’ the bomb arming instruction manual for the bombs they supplied to the Argentine airforce and the French secret service had failed to reprogram the arming sequence on the exocet missiles then we would had lost the Falklands.
Plus is the Argentine army had held on for another month the task force would have had to withdraw due to logistics and wear and tear due to the weather.
The Falklands victory was down to the professional conduct of the UK armed forces, help from our allies and incompetence of the Argentine high command.

Grubbie

HMS Arrow was hit by torpedo that bounced off, after which the subs gave up.Remember electronics back in the 60s and 70s?They are going to be much more capable and reliable now.Type21 was great for zooming around but a liability(actually they were used as disposable minesweepers,so not completely useless) in action. The RN couldn’t wait to get rid of them.A bit like a fast type 31e.

Andy

The type 21 where nice looking ships built to a price .
To much aluminium , but very fast and agile .
I worked with someone who was a helmsmen on a type 21 , he said that at full speed they where a hard target .

Grubbie

Really good looking ships and fast.Seacat combat proven to be useless, structural problems,etc.We certainly have no use for a type 31e version.

Darren

Is the Type 31(e) going to be armed with the modern sea cat version and have the structural problems? Have lessons not been learnt from the past then?

Darren

And to add. I’m sure finite element analysis for hull structures is far more advanced than years ago.

Callum

What are you on about? The Argentine pilots flew beneath the arming height of most of their bombs because they had their own Sea Dart-equipped destroyers and knew that the missile was far less effective against low altitude targets. As for French intelligence “reprogramming the arming sequences”, that sounds like a complete fabrication. There was a French technical team working in Argentina that actually REPAIRED faulty Exocet launchers. Their actions were condemned by the French government after the war.

Grubbie

As far as I can make out, the Argentinean pilots flew lower than expected in order to improve accuracy and spend as little time as possible over the target are.This to the bombs spending to little time in the air to arm themselves. As soon as they realised/were informed by the BBC ,the solution was easy for them,disable the arming device and retard the bomb with a tiny parachute instead,to give the aircraft time to clear the area. I think they easily did all of this by themselves without any help.I understood that the French finished integration of the Exocet and gave assistance with the makeshift launcher that attacked HMS Glamorgan.Our “freinds”the Israelis shipped massive amount of kit to the Argentineans, but most of it arrived too late.

Andy

Suggest you read Woodward book about the Falklands war.
French intelligence played a very crucial role in sabotaging the exocets missiles.

Andrew ex rfa

Disagree in one regard. In am emergency, leave is cancelled, shore based training cancelled, reserves called up and ships in extended readiness put to sea PDQ. Our allies both in and out of NATO will pick up some of the existing commitments, as would the OPVs There are still 30,000 odd left who know full well what would be expected of them.

What is at sea at this moment is not what could be if needs arises.

Darren

Before 2007 she did. Britain spunked 1 Trillion for bankers. Britain has the money!!!!

Grubbie

I have never heard anyone suggest that the deck might melt. I have read some reasonable arguments that there could be severe distortion and fatigue problems owing to relatively thin steel plate decks. I also wonder what happens to the paint and fittings inside.Is a water cooled panel so difficult?

Andy

There were problems with the steel being to thin and the aluminium superstructure developing cracks . But they where the first major warship to use aluminium in this way.
Seacat was a dog ,the navy wanted the sea sparrow but politics said it had to be British.
They where built to a price and quickly and they where good for low intensive operations .
The RN has over the last 40 years focused on quality over quantity .
It needs to have a rethink quantity has a quality at times.
Rather have a navy with 30 mid range frigates than one with maybe 13 but more likely 10 .

Rick

Andy what about Sea Slug in the County Class? Articles on internet say it was useless.
Can’t find any info whether there was a proposal to replace with Sea Dart.

Grubbie

I used to work on on them, absolutely vast. I don’t think they even tried to use them for anti aircraft. They fired one against a land target and left a big crater. I heard it was either a practice or telemetry version, so they just thought they would give it a go.

Grubbie

Further research. 4 seaslug launched at land targets apparently. See littlewars.

Andy

There is YouTube footage of it Grubbie very dramatic.
They where big ass missiles.

Andy

They did fire one at a land target , and actually used it for a shore bombardment.
The result was one big ass crater and total destruction of the target.
I think there is YouTube footage of it.
Also there is YouTube footage of 3 American apache helicopters shooting at a truck crossing a bridge and totally missing .