Royal Navy frigate, HMS Iron Duke was the sole surviving Type 23 based in Portsmouth but from 2025, her home will be Devonport Naval Base.
She joins six surviving Type 23s base-ported in Plymouth as it no longer made sense for a single frigate to be based in Portsmouth. Home-porting ships of the same class together should simplify logistics, force generation and readiness. The majority of the people with the skills and experience needed to keep these ageing vessels going are employed by Babcock and working at Devonport.
The Type 23 Portsmouth Flotilla once consisted of HMS Grafton, HMS Westminster, HMS Richmond, HMS Iron Duke and HMS Marlborough. In November 2017 it was announced frigate basing was rationalised in 2017 with the ‘general purpose’ ships (ie those without towed array sonar) to be Portsmouth ships and the ASW frigates becoming Plymouth ships. This re-basing exercise was never fully implemented as ships were decommissioned early. HMS Lancaster was nominally based in Portsmouth but is now forward-deployed in Bahrain until she bows out, probably late this year.
At the time of writing, the Devonport-based Type 23s flotilla now comprises:
HMS Somerset – active
HMS St Albans – active
HMS Portland – active
HMS Kent – major refit
HMS Sutherland – due to put to sea very soon following more than 4 years in LIFEX/PGMU refit
HMS Richmond – in maintenance, likely participant in CSG25 deployment
HMS Iron Duke – active
The eight Type 26 frigates will be Devonport-based but will be have planned maintenance periods that require dry-docking in Portsmouth. Base porting of the Type 31 frigates is less clear. Under current plans it is intended they will be forward-deployed overseas for much of their careers.
The pending loss of the two LPDs (along with HMS Enterprise and HMS Echo in 2022) will further reduce activity at Devonport Naval Base, providing plenty of spare capacity for another frigate.
Just waiting for the next T23 to age out unexpectedly
Hugo
Wih respect = there is nothing “unexpected” about the T23’s going out of service
They were only ever designed – way back in the ,id 1980’s – for a short woking life.
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
You know what I mean, none of them have met their official retirement dates, Lancaster probably will but that’s worse because it’s this year
Clearly the revised OSD’s provided around the 2021 SDR were fanciful.
Challanger
Agreed (about SDR 2021)
Not for the first time = UK defence policy was being planned around keeping a house of straw in operational service
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Give it a decade and so will the T45s!
They were built for a proper hull life and have proper planned maintained to ensure that happens.
Plus many have hardly been to sea given their length of service life.
I’d be very surprised if Richmond survives past the end of this year. It’s due for refit, but is likely to be in the same shape as Westminster and Northumberland.
And still 3 years away from any replacement
Do we know if there will be more than one RN frigate taking part in CSG25? I relise there will be at least one from Norway
We still do not know
We’re now in situation where Portsmouth & Devonport have less than a dozen warships each! Must seem pretty empty most days.
Not at all, the T45s keep the piers well stocked lol
Plus, don’t forget Montrose and Monmouth !
Up on the trots in Fareham Creek.
Yes I know, Fareham Creek Portsmouth along with the T45’s that Hugo mentioned in a jokey sort of way, I just thought I’d answer in a similar jokey way. They are a very sad sight now.
I haven’t seen you on here for a while, I always read your comments with interest.
Jim
As a fairly fundamental operational principle, I would like to see (note 1) the quaysides at Plymouth, Portsmouth – and especialy up at Faslane – empty of all warships
= because a Navy rproperly belongs out at sea…….
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Note 1. Please Excuse the see pun
PS Nice to see you back N-a-B – good xmas break?
There is an issue with your wish as all three are actually full of ships and Subs…. It’s just that none of them bloody work !
“I see no Ships” and “There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today” are both quotes relevant today.
Kiss me Hardy.
“There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today”
Famous words: once entered by the B**s***r Mr Beatty back in 1916…
Jim
However the one word “today” should have been omitted from the very end of your statement about the overall state of the RN fleet in 2025
After all,
= it has been quite obvious to everybody posting here on Navy Lookout that that there has been “something very wrong” with most of our ships over the past several years……………..
There are far to many “dockyard queens” in the fleet today
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Look on the bright side though, erm, err, hang on a minute, just having a think.
Bright side.
2 Girt ooge Flat Tops with masses of space to allow the USMC to launch and recover a significant number of F35’s saving the MOD billions.
Vastly reduced manpower wages bill.
Significant cuts to operational fuel bills.
Huge reduction in the purchase of Sausages, Beans and Eggs.
Huge areas of now disused bases ripe for development and the building of homes for the newly arrived ESA seekers (New Seekers).
And, we no longer have to send people to clear all the mines.
On the subject of Dockyard Queens, I do have a few stories but probably best not to go there.
Bit quite on the Narcissists front lately, it’s actually rather nice here, I think I’ll stay around.
It’s been Dockyard and Warship cruise from Barbican on selected days for some time!
Soon Portsmouth will just have the 3 Carriers, HMS QE, HMS POW and HMS Gosport Ferry.
Devonport will have HMS Cremyll Ferry and HMS Torpoint Ferry!
Been on them a few times. Early 80’s.
Of the original 16, there will soon only be 7 and more than likely just 4 active sometime next year. It’s going to be a long 3 years before any T26/31’s might actually be delivered.
that’s if HMS Ventura ever comes out of the shed 😂
Yes, she does seem rather reluctant to “Venture forth into the Forth” lets hope Active is more active.
Maybe RN will have to rent som frigates from aboard.
Ahh the oft mentioned ” Off the shelf option” !
What options are there though, and don’t say LCS
I took his comment to be slightly sarcastic, there are no real options.
This Gap has loomed large for many years, just like the T45/T83 probably will.
It was more asking for help to find some navy with surplus frigates and that RN would not take much difficultly training.
What a stupid remark. There are no spare Ships. What is your brain thinking ?
We could buy a couple of second-hand LPDs from Brazil and BAe have a frigate they are going to use for training. More seriously, we are in a mess at the moment and the biggest duty we have is to make sure we don’t stay in the mess. That means moving to continuous production at Rosyth and Govan, so Rosyth doesn’t go under in the early 2030s. We could do this on current spending levels if we ignore the Treasury when they insist we spend money in the wrong places.
Unfortunately I just don’t see it, there’s no evidence we’ll go back to the small batch production with iterative improvements that many navies use today to keep their shipyards busy. We could totally sell off older ships even if it’s half way through their life as long as new ones came in, but instead they’ll be worked to the bone and have expensive and delayed replacements.
O/T
BAE has submitted a revision to their previously approved plans for the modernised and upgraded Nuclear Berth at Devonshire, i.e. the nuclear fuelling berth. Its got some new renders with a Dreadnought class alongside.
Barrow planning application B31/2024/0557
Compared to the previously approved plans for the extension of the Quay workshop space is increased from 374 m2 to 1,100 m2 including 350 m2 of storage space. Office space in the five storey building has been sacrificed for expanding the Radiation Services Lab to now include the first 3 floors rather than 2 meaning less space available for offices which has primarily come at the expense of the MoD whose share of the 140 office desks on the 3rd floor of the building is being reduced from 49 desks to 8 after indicating they were willing to reduce their employee space requirement (looks like its primarily an office for holding and printing secure documents).
I guess gearing up for AUKUS ?
Watcherzero
Thank you for the info on the planning application. I must admit that I had overlooked it
Sad fact of the matter is that this infrastructure project is, yet again, trying to make a silk purse out of the scrappy leftovers from a pigs dinner eaten fifty years ago.
Overall: Barrow is no longer fit for purpose (as the SSBM fire demonstrated).
Also Barrow needs proper road and rail links, to connect it to the real (outside) world = so the potential workforce can actually get there to work….
Barrow needs rebuilding – from scratch (and not on /reusing the existing site) – if it is ever going to build ARKUS submarines
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
PS
And, reading between the lines of those recently reorientated geopolitical tea leaves……I am really begjnning to seriously wonder whether, – or more likely not? – those Aussie ARKUS submarines are ever going to be built here in the UK.
Before i ask what ARKUS is ? Can you please confirm that you are who you say you are and not someone who says they are you or maybe not you if they are not actually you pretending to be you.
I’m not being paranoid but I really don’t know who is who and Who isn’t who they say they are or not as the case may be.
I had to check to see If it’s me typing this or someone pretending to be me, I hope it is actually me and that I’m actually talking to you and not me pretending to be me and you at the same time as or you trying to be me as well as being you.
I don’t want to be talking to myself or any Wolfy Warrior Higher being just in case It’s not actually me but someone a bit barking mad that is pretending to be me, you and everyone else including a Wolf ?
ARKUS ?
What mortal hand or eye, Jim, could mimic either of you? You are both sui generis.
ha ha…… gratias tibi ago..
Jim and Jon
Can you please post on Navy Lookout using proper Kings English
…..not in ancient Italian
Bon Vovage!
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Hey Bro like you is a dude Init, that’s what I is sayin like.
Is that any better ? I think I pretty much nailed the language of the “Youth of today”.
Jim
Sorry! My stupid spelling mistake
It should have read AUKUS
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
PS
Being one of these new fangled Qwerty Keyboard Warriors is quite hard work = especially after only drinking one cup of coffee in the morning!
Phew, I’m so glad it’s actually you and not another you !
AUKUS, Easy mistake to make, one letter makes all the difference.
I was just reading about the latest AMG JISSM it’s rather a weapon by all accounts.
Tip, if you only have the one cup of coffee in the morning and it’s not enough, get a bigger cup !
See you on the next one.
ARKUS is where submarines come out 2 by 2 rather than 1 every 2 years if you’re lucky!
Ha ha, We wish !
Astute launched in 2007, that’s 18 years ago now. Makes you wonder how AUKUS will fair.
Thank you, Bernard.
So said Sir Humphrey!
I really missed out on that series, so wish I had watched it at the time, I’ve managed a few episodes and creased up, those two characters were spot on.
Spitting Image needs a return, Just think of the laughs we could have given the abundance of comical characters that festoon Westminster !
As for HMS Iron Duke, I would love to see her along side HMS Warrior eventually. It’ll never happen though.
Let’s get Iron Duke out to the Gulf first. I hope Peregrine will be integrated before that, or we’ll have wasted over another ten million quid and two more years of failing to put drones on ships.
It’s OK, It’s only Tax payers money, I’m sure RR can find a few more suckers to fleece. How about a window tax ? Or a Mansion Tax or an overseas tax haven tax or a tax on Channel crossings ?
Maybe a tax on Tea exports.
“Got any Tax”?
Tax is the new Spam, Tax Tax Eggs and Tax, Tax Eggs Chips and Tax, Tax Tax Tax Beans and Eggs and Tax, Tax Eggs Bacon and Tax, Tax Spam Eggs and Bacon and Cheese and Tax….. so on and so forth.
We could raise money by selling the Chagos Islands to Mauritius (who never actually owned them) instead of paying them 800 million a year for the privilege. Trump will be having the final say on that though. Hopefully we get a better deal on the FI’s.
Jim
FRIENDLY ADVICE
Be very careful with your use of vey short two-letter acroymns
Best to stick to RN and MOD offical policy: always use TLA’s.
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Note 1.
Credit must go to N-a-B for that one (posted a few weeks ago).
FAB.
A little know fact that FAB actually stood for Thunderbirds are brilliant. Useless info but true.
The person who came up with it was Di Sellick.
Let’s keep old ‘Dukey’ going, there’s no finer sight than when she lifts her skirts and hits the gas. I remember running down a rogue Narwhal off the coast of Togo in the early 2000s, we touched 35 knots!! She was shaking like a pooing dog, the Old Man was beside himself, but orders are orders!! Happy days 🙂
Help me out here with the fast frigate vibe that has escaped the Treasury’s wrath / cut.
Total outsider here …
What is the speed needed for?
Anti-torpedo tactic — under attack then turn and run.
Working on the basis that the torpedo only has limited legs.
Asking for a friend.
Seems mental to put this amount of effort into a frigate’s powertrain.
28 knots should be enough with 22 knots for the batting packers.
WW2 Destroyers were slower than WW1 ones due to displacement and power to weight differences, even a child knows that. You need to use the internet like I do.
This is another imposter post. I’m being trolled by at least 12 different handles now.
Four old frigates active and two destroyers. How did this happen?
Because the general public are more concerned about who wins Strictly and Love Island.
Having two destroyers active out of six is normal. Having five of the current eight frigates active is statistically very good. It’s been achieved by laying off or selling almost all the frigates that aren’t active.
How did this happen ?
Cameron-May- Truss-Sunak are the names you should sheet the blame
Boris was the only one who was worth his time in office
It’s not me, it’s Sock puppets from higher places directing agents from China to act like me and sound like me on this British site and I’m not really them even if I sound like them. They are Tom, Dick, Harry, Hugh and Jim and Hugo Pete and a few others but not Whale Island Zoo Keeper as he is me also and no one ever replies to us and that’s not fair.
This is not me, this is someone pretending to be me.
To all the sock puppets, I will continue to post here and I will continue to report anyone that doesn’t agree with me to admin, I shall also continue my condescending ways and passive aggressive behaviour whist always having the last say.
I will not apologise for acting this way over the many many years I’ve been on here and I don’t care about all the many sock puppets I have actively and successfully had removed.