Subscribe
Notify of
guest

32 Comments
Oldest
Newest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Armchair Admiral

Excellent. A very worthwhile and internationally visible service, enhancing the reputation of thr RN, and one not involving ships.
This is handy, because…..
AA

TonyB

A very informative article; many thanks NL. I have seen UKMTO mentioned in a number of articles on other sites, but it is good to get a snapshot on the important role it plays.

Nigel Collins

Agreed.

Whale Island Zoo Keeper

This is what the RN have done for centuries. It is amazing that this serious work is handled with such a small amount of personnel. It is what should have shaped our surface combatant design post Cold War; a return to a cruiser navy.

Duker

If by ‘cruisers’ you mean naval vessels that can operate long distances from base and 5-10k tonnage then thats whats happened.
First UK armoured ( deck) cruiser HMS Shannon 1875
before this time similar ships were called Frigates or Sloops

300px-HMS_Shannon_18751
Whale Island Zoo Keeper

I wish this site used Disqus.

Fred

Agree with you! And also spam filters to cut down the BS from China.

Jonno

I met men who had served in ships like that. Amazing but in the days of steam it took decades and it wasn’t until the 1880’s ships had the range under steam power to be sure to get from one coal station to another. Maybe we should bring back sail for stealth in ASW! Sort of joking!

Whale Island Zoo Keeper

I have thought about it too in the past.

comment image

FWIW paddle boats have low underwater noise too.

Diesel electric Director class paddle tugs built to work the carriers back in the day.

comment image?v=AE323139-8A37-463C-88D4-FD67A9AF0913

jimbo

Worked there for nearly 2 years. Excellent job but long, long hours.

Good to see the place getting recognition

Reports come in from the VRA at 0800Z and the GOG at 1200Z makes for a really busy day as every email has to be read and checked with the systems in place.

The relationship with the French is quite close and there is good communication at all levels

Last edited 3 months ago by jimbo
Will

I wouldn’t mind working for an organization like that. Do you have to be a UK citizen to work there?

Duker

Royal Navy Reserve run from what I have read. Nato and USN have similar for different areas

Will

Duker, yes, I just came across something about what seems to be broadly similar technology operated by the US Coast Guard, though it appears that AMVER is mostly automated.

AMVER – Wikipedia

Nila

This is why I think the Royal Navy should have gotten a GP frigate from the US. That’s why I think the Sea control frigate based on the USCG’s National Security Cutter could fit the need as a GP frigate. They can put the GP frigate in places like the Falklands or even in the Gulf.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OJZ8eB_mPA

AlexS

Isn’t that what the T31 is for?

Jonno

Yes that’s the T31 with its roots in Denmark’s patrol needs for Greenland etc. I think they are perfect except maybe a larger main gun.
We will have 4.5″ on the T45s for another 15 years. I wish we set them up for AAW and smart shells. Would that really be such a huge problem? I happen to think the 4.5″ is a better calibre than 5″.

Duker

The 4.5in system was in batch production of half a dozen every 20 years or so, so was untenable now. The 5in is in continuous production as is the 57mm and 40mm types.
The capability- quite expensive now- is what matters not small differences in calibre. And now 5in is now the standard and makes a large difference for ammunition etc

Nigel Collins

And a new trainable decoy launcher is on the way for them including the Type 45s and 26s.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/naval-weapons/latest/sea-wins-out-for-uk-naval-decoy-launcher-competition

Whale Island Zoo Keeper

NSC / Legend / Bertholf class are such pretty ships too. One of my favourites. It is often pointed out across the Pond the one glaring omission is the lack of ASW kit. For example:

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2020/september/bring-back-coast-guard-sub-hunters

Submarines are just going to become more common as China continues to make strides with SSK production and more states are open to basing them.

comment image

comment image

Duker

As the larger frigates and destroyers have the longer range & capabilities that cruisers used to have , these have become the light frigates. The USCG calls them ‘cutters’, an old term.
RN Cutter Alert 1777 10 guns

ColeAlert121
Whale Island Zoo Keeper

The increase in range is just technology advancing. But to use RN nomenclature neither T45 as a destroyer or T23/T26 as frigates are cruisers.

A modern cruiser would displace somewhere around 12,000 tons **, 120-ish VLS cells, area air warfare, ASW, and be able to carry 4 helicopters with a normal air group of 3 (say 2 Merlin and 1 Wildcat.)

** Due to flight deck, increased stores, and bunkers.

Whale Island Zoo Keeper

Another alternative is the Japan Coast Guard’s Shikishima class of large helicopter cutters. Designed to protect their nuclear agency’s movement of fissile material and waste. Design with a range of 20,000 nautical miles (yes twenty thousand) and to carry two medium helicopters.

comment image

Last edited 3 months ago by Whale Island Zoo Keeper
Whale Island Zoo Keeper

The post above comes after another of mine about the NSC which has disappeared into moderation.

Whale Island Zoo Keeper

Though for a while now I have been thinking that Type 31 should have been based on Absalon’s not the Iver Huitfedlt class. No real need for speed to money could have been saved on one set of propulsion which could have been spent on rafting etc. Also leaving plenty of space for stores. Plenty of space aft for TAS / VDS which the Danes are now fitting to the class. And better flight deck arrangements too to ease the operation of big cabs like Merlin.

comment image

comment image

And the ‘weapons tub’ which for some reason in T31 will be plated in. Why I do not know, but then again it is the modern RN so common sense isn’t that common. Heck perhaps they could have given thought to them carrying A30 too?

comment image

Sean

We couldn’t have gotten a GP frigate from the US, they retired the last of their Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates almost a decade ago. The USCG cutters are NOT frigates, which is why the USN chose the FREMM (a foreign design) for their new frigates.

Whale Island Zoo Keeper

What makes me laugh about you is you go off attacking others on topic that you constantly show in your posts you know nothing at all. Most of what you what you trot isn’t fact just your beliefs. You freely mix terms without regard for history or national usage. Why are you constantly rude? Who do you think you are?

Huntingon Ingals Industries have two patrol frigate variant desigs based on the NSC. If you showed somebody the spec of the NSC without revealing its identity they would say it is a patrol frigate. Have you ever looked at the spec’s of the NSC? Or have you just decided in your infinite wisdom it isn’t a frigate? This is beyond say the confusion or ignorance of calling a SPG a tank. The NSC does have one or two unique features specified by the USCG which a navy frigate does not have. But they alone don’t take away from the simple that the NSC is just a patrol frigate. The reason why the USN went for FREMM was because NSC simply wasn’t big enough for what they wanted. Nothing more. Many in USCG circles think it is a mistake not fitting the NSC with ASW.

comment image?ssl=1

You are rude ignorant person.

Will

I don’t see any reason why the RN couldn’t get a GP frigate from the US, or more accurately from the Italian conglomerate Fincantieri and its Great Lakes shipyard. If the RAN can purchase Virginia class nuclear submarines right off the shelf—as is planned under AUKUS—why not a few Constellation class frigates for the Royal Navy? (I know, I know, the most direct approach would be another batch of Type 31s, this is just a thought exercise. As we say in Kentucky, “I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin'”.)

Last edited 3 months ago by Will
Duker

Doesnt match RN standards and the equipment fit wouldnt be the same as other frigates/destroyers.
I think the USN made a big mistake buying the Fincantieri type when it needed so much modifications. No longer the cheap frigate required , the Coast Guards legend class at around 5000 tons with the same gun, helicopter etc . Just better radars and some VLS was all thats required

Whale Island Zoo Keeper

The US wanted AEGIS and SM-x missiles. The NSC just isn’t suitable for that. The Burkes are at the end of their design life. And they need a modern quiet ASW ship. Now where as think we should have had T31 based on Absalon I do think Iver Huitfeldt would have been a good choice for the USN. It’s built around US systems and is robust and they could have afforded a lot of them.

Whale Island Zoo Keeper

The Australians just get on with things. When they procured the Perth-class in the 1960’s they basically had 3 ships built to US standards in a navy that then basically used RN standards. They became a navy within a navy. Off Vietnam though they plugged straight into the USN logistics train.

The main problem with the UK buying a frigate off the US is they don’t build anything that fits the UK needs. Perhaps if WIGS was still a thing then NSC would be just fine?