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Jack65

Sounds like a good read!

DaSaint

Yes, something we don’t do as much of these days! I’m looking forward to sitting in a comfy chair and enjoying the read!

DavidB

Added to reading list! Thanks for the heads up!

Sunmack

Properly equipping their aircraft would be a good start. The F35’s need a stand-off land attack and heavyweight anti-ship missile to avoid having to go into the engagement envelope of land targets or ships with area defence missiles.

Obviously the F35 is stealthy but Russia and China are investing huge amounts to continually improve their ability to detect stealthy platforms and will no doubt sell the associated technology to any country with hard cash.

They also need drop tanks to avoid the carrier having to operate close to coastlines which puts them at risk from land based aircraft and SSM’s.

David Simpson

Why can’t you just relax rather than be an armchair pontificator… timing is all in such comments

Scot

If, Anti-Stealth was a serious capability. Odd that the world keeps investing heavily into Stealthy Ships and Planes. Including well into the future. (6th Generation Fighters for EXAMPLE) In short, I wouldn’t count too much on Anti-Stealth claims from either China and/or Russia

Deep32

The F35 isn’t a ‘true’ stealth plane in the mould of the F22/B2, which is where @SM might be coming from!

RobB

Stealth doesnt make you disappear, it makes you look smaller. The counter-measure is to use a bigger/better ‘telescope’ (radar). So its a cat and mouse game. In any case the F35B cant carry much internally. Big, heavy hitting weapons will have to be carried externally, blowing the RCS.

Duker

A bigger ‘telescope’

russia-Nebo-M-radar-nato[1].jpg
X

The RN were tracking F117 back in GW1. Stealth is about mitigation not invisibility.

Supportive Bloke

Also knowing what to look for….

Hence why Turkey were chucked out of the F35 program.

X

Yes!

heroic

I see some comments have been deleted again.

Bloke down the pub

The fact that Chris Terril hasn’t received a gong for his services to the armed forces seems an odd ommission.

Ian

Hi BDTP
Has Chris done a documentary of the trip to China….. and if so where would we find it
Many thanx
Ian

Deep32

Don’t believe it’s been aired yet, something we are waiting for.

Bloke down the pub

From wiki,
2021-2022Strike ForceBBC2Major 6 part series on HMS Queen Elizabeth’s first operational deployment leading a task force to several of the world’s hotspots (in production)

Looking forward to it. ps I miss-spelt Chris Terrill’s name

David MacDonald

The new carriers are good news but, to be effective, they require both aircraft and escorts. The UK’s total force of operational fast jets has been reduced to five squadrons of Typhoons plus a flight of 4 in the Falklands and 617 Squadron’s F35s. The Royal Navy can sometimes “borrow” part of 617 squadron but has no fast jets of its own. The national lack of fast jets as short sighted, even dangerous, as the shortage of frigates and SSNs.

Does anyone know when 809 Navy Air Squadron is due to form?

N-a-B

It’s down to the purchasing schedule for the jets, which has in turn driven the aircrew training schedule.

Just for balance, both 617 and 207 (the OCU) sqns have RN COs at the minute. 809NAS is (I believe) due to form this year and achieve IOC next year.

Last edited 4 months ago by N-a-B
Ryan

That’s not an aircraft carrier. It a jump jet carrier.

heroic

Oh dear, oh deary me…….

X

It’s sad that isn’t the stupidest thing I have ever read here.

heroic

There’s more stupid below (unless your settings are different).

X

My settings seem to be similar to yours.

Bob

Just ordered this book…looking forward to reading it

X

Reminds me of Ripping Yarns and the 1:1 scale model of an ice breaker.

The Yanks were quietly amazed at how well it all went.

Commonwealth Loyalist

I like it, good article. As Tom Clancy once said, the only navy he would be afraid of is the RN, in spite of its smaller size.

It is impressive that the QE class has gone so smoothly, especially compared to the Charles De Gaulle and the Gerald Ford classes, let alone the recent Russian, Indian and Chinese carrier attempts. Well done RN!!!

Also the VTOL was invented by our British ancestors and like many other things in aerospace and other fields later adopted and perfected by the Yanks who are much better at mass production, self promotion and marketing. It is now improved in the form of the F35B in which both countries had a hand. The advantages, such as the higher sortie rate compared to cats and traps, and the ability to land anywhere eg even on a destroyer if necessary, has not often received much credit except on this website.

I am wondering if anyone has found a plan for a replacement VTOL jet when the Lightning becomes obsolete, I have not managed to find one. But maybe that is another reason to applaud the foresight of the QE design which can in a pinch be switched to cats and traps or whatever replaces that in 25 years time.

Great article as usual, thanks so much,

John

dick van dyke

The idea and Development of VTOL has it’s roots back to Leonardo Da Vinci with various designs by different Countries along the way, including Germany France and the USA. Yes the UK managed to make it work but we weren’t alone in inventing the Idea. To be able to switch to C’s and T’s “at a pinch” is pushing it a bit but we do know the history of the build and it’s “Designed for but not with” capability.

Duker

UK was far more than ‘making it work’. Those who invented the idea, their concepts couldnt work and it took the talented engine designers at Bristol with their Pegasus to have the two types of thrust from a single engine.

X

That there is no mention of a VTOL variant of the Tempest concept gives me pause.

Duker

Twin engines would rule that out it would seem

X

Um. It’s a concept. That’s all it is. You would think they would have come up with a concept that could be converted. Heck we put up with the ludicrous SeaPhoon stupidity for years.

Captain Mainwaring

And does this book help when a Russian flotilla is sailing down the Channel?

6 Russian ships of Baltic Fleet passing through English channel this evening escorted in turn by Dutch, Belgian, French warships, including 3 Rapucha-class landing ships likley headed to Black Sea to menace Ukraine

Being a book worm does not help anything except paying the publisher.
Send the bloody ships out!

Last edited 4 months ago by Captain Mainwaring
dick van dyke

“send the bloody ships out” to do what exactly ?

Captain Mainwaring

If you do not know what naval ships are used for, what are you talking about on this forum? Ask the Dutch, French, Belgian and US navies if you want to know, at least some navies know what they are doing.

What then was the point sending a carrier task force to the Far East?
Naval ships are not meant to be staying in ports? We have buildings for that.

Sailing right past the Solent and asked “to do what exactly ?
Would Admiral Beatty have asked such a question?

Totally useless when literally “The Barbarians is at the gate”
Another reason for cutting the budget to a navy that linger only in ports.

Last edited 4 months ago by Captain Mainwaring
X

Grow up.

dick van dyke

You haven’t answered my question so I’ll repeat, To do what exactly ? Answer the question, don’t make sweeping ignorant statements.

captain p wash

To be honest, I can’t work out if you are an Idiot trying to be clever or a clever Idiot, either way you come over as an Idiot.

Last edited 4 months ago by captain p wash
Duker

Channel is an international waterway, naval ships can pass through at any time.
Indeed the does this get up your nose’ show was done 6 months back of Crimea when the RN had a destroyer play cat and mouse for no real effect.
The Prince of Wales is heading to Baltic as part of planned exercise, no doubt as the Russian flotilla is heading opposite direction to do.

captain p wash

?

Duker

So now its you playing the idiot trying to be clever

X

Looking at the map, weather for year, and other data the Russians have picked probably a sensible spot for such drills. Not ideal. Oddly here nobody goes off on one when NATO runs exercises near the Russian border. Strange NATO can mess about in sea close to Russia. But we are the good guys aren’t we?

captain p wash

Hello, Not sure what you intend here but my question was why you replied to my post in reply to Captain Mainwaring and now you are replying on his behalf….. Are you him as well ? It wouldn’t surpise me based upon previous child like replies you gave under various other names…… My real name is Peter Walsh but my friends call me Pugwash on account of my rather portly appearance and the one eye injury sustained in service many years ago. We should meet up and have a chat, what do you reckon ??????

Mellons X

“Pot Kettle” springs to mind.

captain p wash

Please keep to your one name here, it avoids confusion as to which Idiot to reply to.

Captain Mainwaring

U.S. Naval Forces Europe-Africa/U.S. Sixth Fleet

The Ohio-class guided-missile USSGeorgia (SSGN 729), operating in the U.S. Sixth Fleet area of operations, conducts a brief stop for personnel near Limassol, Cyprus, Jan. 15, 2022.

22 out of the SSGN’s 24 missile tubes are now capable of launching up to seven BGM-109 Tomahawk cruise missiles

Read your bloody book if you have no ships capable to be sent out.

Last edited 4 months ago by Captain Mainwaring
heroic

I think both of your posts are rather silly, pointless and childish.

Captain Mainwaring

As silly, pointless and childish as an invasion of Ukraine?
Read more books, patting each other back and keep hiding your head in the sand, well done.

Last edited 4 months ago by Captain Mainwaring
heroic

No but your posts and their content is as I say, ” silly, pointless and childish” you are only underlining this opinion each time you type such drivel.

Sebastian

It would be a good idea if you read a book.

X

Who gives a monkey’s about the Ukraine? Why would Russia want to invade the Ukraine? What does it offer them that is worth risking a conflict that could possibly end in a nuclear exchange? Land? Russia has land. Resources? Russia has resources. Food production? Russia is the world’s biggest exporter of food. Manufacturing? Russia builds everything it needs and has China. So please tell me why does Russia want to invade Ukraine?

Duker

Yes. Its highly unlikely to be a quick war followed by mission accomplished as a long unwinnable war is more likely. Theres plenty of examples for both sides of that.
What has me wondering is why would the Biden admin ramp up the war scares until you realise the new German Government may be looking to exit the nuclear bomb sharing with USAF and not buy nuclear capable fighter bombers to replace the last squadrons of Tornado’s. The F-18E order hasnt been confirmed and looking rocky
What better way of panicking them into continuing the long policy of Luftwaffe planes able to drop US nuclear weapons.

X

Why would they want to go war for the Ukraine? That’s the simple question that never gets answered in the West’s MSM. All this propaganda the Ukrainian government are putting out showing civilians will to fight Russians for the Ukraine leaves me asking which Ukraine are they wanting to defend?

The wheels, chassis, body panels and pretty much everything else are coming off the ‘Biden Administration’ they need a distraction. Saying that it is very evident that they and the Democrats appear to think this is still 1995 and know little about how the world works. Really scary.

Germany is making a lot of money in Russia and needs Russia gas (as does the rest of Europe.) Geo strategically Germany is tied to Russia.

I am unsure why HMG has decided Russia is a threat to us. Never mind going to the lengths they are. I am reminded back in 2014 David Cameron trooped into briefings with all the second tier EU powers when the French and Germans wanted to say something about the situation in the Ukraine. Now the latter pair have realised what a cock-up they made and are distancing themselves. Again why the UK wants to fill the gap I don’t know.

RobB

Why would they want to go war for the Ukraine? ‘
Ukraine joining NATO is a bit like Canada joining Warsaw Pact and pointing missiles at Washington and US ICBM fields. How long do you think USA would’ve put up with that? No doubt Putin doesnt want to invade Ukraine but maybe the game is to provoke him into doing it.

X

The US would never let Ukraine into NATO for that very reason. The Biden Harris Administration >larf< need a distraction, but creating a latter day Cuban Missile Crisis is too much.

Some of the utter stupidity and swivel eyed lunacy I read on forums like this one have me agog.

RobB

So first you cant see any reason why Putin would invade Ukraine and then you agree he could be provoked into doing it if Ukraine joined NATO. So therefore you think this will never happen. In the meantime, NATO leaders at Brussels 2021 affirm that Ukraine would be become a member of the alliance. Is there any former Warsaw Pact nation that isnt a part of NATO now, aside from the Soviet Union? Did the former Soviet bloc members of NATO all join in 1990 or has the process taken 3 decades? Do you think the process has stopped? Do you think the West has played no part in Ukrainian politics over the last two decades? Oh, they just sat by and had no influence whatsoever! Gosh, what was Hunter Biden doing there? Go read The Grand Chessboard, Zbigniew Brzezinski. No, this isnt just a bit of distraction for the Biden admin. You’re looking at a game of world domination thats been played over decades. The RN isnt cruising off the coast of Crimea because it doesnt give a monkeys. So what are Putins options? Wait for the inevitable (because the US wont let up on controlling the Ukraine) – or invade now? If he does, the US wins if it bogs down Russia in a protracted guerrilla war. So maybe he just slices off a limited bit of real estate. Or plays his own guerrilla war somewhere else. A bit like thwarting the West in Syria. As for Biden, its obvious the deep state got the puppet president they wanted.
Utter stupidity? No shortage of that!

X

Is the Ukraine a member of NATO now? No
Has Ukraine been told that it has little to no chance of ever joining NATO? Yes. The US decides what happens in NATO not Europeans sitting around a table in Brussels. Why? They have the money and the muscle.

You have extrapolated a lot from what I have said without much foundation. To be honest I agree with some of what you say. But much of what you assumes too much about what I know and think.

captain p wash

It’s a sort of Military Monopoly when all is considered.

X

It isn’t really. It is more, ‘Look squirrel!’, ignorance, and, bigotry.

captain p wash

Well maybe but I still see it as a game of property gain and control being played out by the key players using all the money and pawns they own and control, whilst all the time skimming off the profits……in the age old fashion. Luckily for most of us, we are way too stupid to see it and all too eager to die for them come what may.

Robert

Does the book give any insight into the STOVL Vs CTOL design arguments and plan changes?

N-a-B

No – its all about the people.

captain p wash

Well if it doesn’t cover these arguments which were strongly debated during the design and build period,and at a not too insignificant cost, I’d be rather surprised NAB. But what the heck do I know….. I’m not a Boffin either.

N-a-B

The title is something of a misnomer. It’s a good read, with some very human detail. There are some schoolboy errors, 40 tonne Merlin helicopters, Charlie Time definition (air ops, not meridians or indeed Bolivian marching powder), completely forgetting that Portsmouth built some very significant chunks of both QNLZ and PWLS.

Doesn’t deal with anything prior to the final stages of build and commissioning, but eminently readable and worthwhile buying.

Mike B

It would be nice if you could get the series about the QE on DVD.

Bob

Received the book on Friday 25th finished it Sunday 27th absolutely absorbing!