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JohnT

Well, suddenly this site decided to weigh into American politics by referring to the President of the United States as a child. I recommend you stick to naval matters, you may find that quite a number of your readers have differing opinions.

Charlie

From somebody who is very centrist politically, doesn’t like virtually any politicians, and has nothing against the Republican Party in particular – he is a child. One can think he acts like a child but be in support of his policies and administration as a whole. I don’t want politics over naval matters here either, but looking back over his actions, I don’t think it is an untruth to say he sometimes acts in an infantile manner.

James Dougherty

He may speak with childish petulant but he acts with determination. He is not like professional politicians who never say what they think and only pretend to act. Its called: talking a good game. Obama was an expert at it, delivering ” line in the sand ” ultimatum which blew away with the winds.

Duker

“but he acts with determination.” Except its nothing of the sort..inconsistent, confused, contradictory …Yes
The big last minute cancellation
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/06/21/u-s-threatened-strikes-iran-after-drone-shot-down-but-withdrew/1521352001/
and the big backdown here
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-threatens-iran-attacks-52-sites-n1110511
His actions are those of a real estate developer dealing with neighbours ,unions, councils and lenders.

don

He’s a giant coward, a whoremonger, boor, thief, racist, and pig-ignorant of history and science.

There is no less qualified individual to sit in the Oval Office, and no President with more blood on his hands thanks to his utterly indifferent, mendacious and incompetent response to Covid-19.

He makes Bush Jr. look reasoned and thoughtful- though to be fair, Bush Jr at least believed IMHO that he was doing what was good for the USA. Trump only thinks of himself- full stop- and this is reflected every.single.day.

Michael

Make sure to clean the spittle off of your keyboard, pal. You ought to apply at CNN or get a spot on The View. They would love you.

4thwatch

8 wasted years with nothing to show.

don

Sometimes?

Meirion X

Well, he did say inject yourself with disinfectant to protect from COVID19!
It did make me really laugh, after watching that performance!

John Ciccone

He also said it was a sarcastic joke.

Challenger

If you believe he was speaking sarcastically you’ll believe anything!

Rick

That’s right Challenger. Meirion has 70 down votes. I don’t get it.

Meirion X

You are right, something Not quiet right here!

4thwatch

Not a Doctor, but there is in fact a procedure whereby deep wounds particularly gangrene, were treated successfully without anti biotics and with antiseptics.

Duker

Betadene on skin surface, even iodine based compounds again on surface. I have a anti bacterial ointment containing Sodium Fusidate for skin surface as well…really speeds up minor grazes, cuts etc.
No where does it suggest these are injected and for gangrene it will need higher level medical referral as well.

4thwatch

I’m surprised you don’t know of the Carrel- Dakin method of wound treatment. Oh well.

Duker

You mean something from the era of WW1 trench warfare … Lets us know about a treatment that injects the sterilizing agent into the body and where NO external wounds exist. There isnt of course, because its barking mad.

4thwatch

Its back to the trenches and ‘all that’, just now surely?

don

These tRUmp boosters would have us using leeches and pouring boiling oil in gunshot wounds. They don’t want to take us back to the 1950s…more like the 1450s…

Gavin Gordon

I should think antiseptics valid, 4th – we use Betadine for cuts & sores. I’d even be quite ‘sanguine’ over maggots.
But any suggestion Trump came up with should be taken with a ‘pinch of strychnine’, to paraphrase.

don

Totally what tRump was talking about. Yes.

don

Sure, he did.

JJames

Agreed, JohnT. The reference itself is infantile and unnecessary.

Shire boy

but accurate

Sunmack

He’s wrong about many things but he’s right about China

don

No, he most certainly isn’t. And if he’s so ‘anti-China’, why is he in debt to them over $220 million? Why has he sold us out to Russia? Anything to do with borrowing nigh on $1/2 a BILLION dollars from them?

Seems as though he likes ‘communists’ just fine when it comes to ‘business’, another reason why the US will forever regret not impeaching him over literally hundreds of violations of the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution, that hoary document (Bush: ‘Just a goddamned piece of paper’) he so regularly ignores.

Michael

Trump is not, will not be impeached. Ever. He will be re-elected. Hillary lost, pal. Get over it.

Alexa

Surely you would pay more attention to the paragraphs above that, rather than the one throw-away line by the author?

don

What’s wrong with it? Only a hopeless partisan hack would view the disaster that has been Trump as anything positive.

Michael

Hillary lost pal. Get over it.

Gavin Gordon

I would remark that this unusual lapse endorses the normally high standard of STRN, since it has evinced such a shocked reaction. Clearly frustration can get to all of us, often measured against a much shorter tolerance threshold.

Thulasidas

Yes! Thanks John .

AlexS

I agree, and it is specially cretinous by the author, looking at 5G Huawei issue.

Meirion X

@JohnT
You Trumpers and the Kremlin trolls, are very odd bed fellows!
Please tell me about it?

JohnT

It seems in your limited world that anyone that disagrees with you must be a Kremlin spy. How very labor of you, perhaps the failure of Corbyn should be a warning for you. Your paranoid views are obviously on the wrong side of history.

Meirion X

Another one of you Outrages again, by a pathetic Trumper!
With votes as well!

Meirion X

I am sure the Kremlin troll are serving you well!

Meirion X

This site would be a very odd place to be, for a Corbyn fan!

JohnT

Yet here you are.

Meirion X

@JohnT
So you are having an another delusional episode in your Trumpen House of Mirrors?
You are a pathetic, sad, sad case of A Man!

Meirion X

Speak of yourself, you just making A Fool of Yourself again, I see!

don

Heh. What’s the ‘T’ stand for, tRump? Moscow getting warmer finally?

Patrick

When the President of the US stops acting like a child, people will stop reporting his childish behaviour.

Michael

As if I give a tinkers damn about what the Brits about think my president, especially in light of the disaster May that they sacked.

Rick

You should give a damn what the world thinks because Trump is a moron and an embarresment to the United States.

Michael

“Trump is a moron”. Why?, because he speaks his mind? Because he doesn’t sugarcoat what he believes? That precisely what his supporters love about him. The USA has had too many “Ken Dolls”, politicians who look good on camera but are hacks who mimic the party line, but on the end accomplish little. Trump is not a politician and therefore doesn’t think like one nor speak like one. Trump also thinks out of the box, he is not afraid to go beyond established norms, he is not afraid to break the mold. Trump is a doer. This offends and frightens many in the establishment, both domestically and internationally.
Trump is decisive, and at the same time not afraid to change his mind in a situation.
He is a patriot who loves America and genuinely loves America’s citizens.
With the pandemic, I believe that Trump has done a fantastic job of marshaling recourses , and leading the efforts to get America back on her feet again.
Do I believe that Trump is perfect? No.
But I believe that he is absolute best to lead our nation at this time? Yes.

Rick

Whatever, you’re entitled to your opinions and beliefs. No point in arguing about
him. Cheers pal.

don

‘But I believe that he is absolute best to lead our nation at this time? Yes.’

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why the USA is headed to 3rd-world status. No industrial democracy can flourish without an educated populace, here is exhibit A. RIP, USA.

Michael

RIP USA? Let’s see, the UK has been overrun by Muslims, your London has exclusion zones where non Muslims can’t go, knife And acid attacks are at an all time high, you have soldiers literally butchered in the street on broad daylight by muzzies,, and you can’t even own a firearm to defend yourself. I know several Brits who go back to Uk to visit , but swear they will never go back to live.
The USA is going to be fine, pal.

don

That you call him ‘President’ and obviously lick his boots, speaks volumes. And say what you will about May- SHE WAS QUALIFIED TO HOLD THE OFFICE. Bit different from your God.

Michael

For someone who was “qualified” she was sure given the bums rush,lol

don

The truth hurts…

Emu

Come on guys settle down and get back to the Naval topic in hand. It is great to see the cooperation between the RN and USN.

Bloke no longer down the pub

If you want to talk about an immature attitude to Fonops, then perhaps you should be concentrating your ire on the Chinese who, if we’re not lucky, will start a war with their neighbours over their illegal territorial claims .

Sunmack

Agreed. Having unleashed a virus on the world which has killed tens of thousands of people, they are taking advantage of the weakened US Navy presence which it has caused to ramp up the intimidation of their neighbour’s.

It’s time we stopped thinking that China will become more liberal in its political attitudes as it becomes wealthier and realised it will use that wealth to aggressively pursue its nationalistic goals. China needs to be treated as an unfriendly state and we need to start the long process of migrating economic activity away from them

Meirion X

Agreed!

Duker

Lots of Countries have ‘because I can’ territorial claims. How did Australia end up with an island 350km off the coast of Java and 1500km from its own territory. Or how the US ended up in effective control of Diego Garcia which was separated from Mauritius.

The most interesting one is the small uninhabited island between Jamaica and Haiti, Navassa Island claimed by US.
“Haiti protested the annexation, but on July 7, 1858, U.S. President James Buchanan issued an Executive Order upholding the American claim, which also called for military action to enforce it.” Wikipedia

Im not supportive of China ( backed by Taiwan too) grabbing atolls in the SCS but its how the world has always worked. Might is right

Steve

Is the t23 a better sub hunter than the Arleigh Burke’s? I would have thought it would be the other way around, as the US ships also have onboard capabilities to hit back outside the helicopter.

Meirion X

The Burkes have only got gas turbine engines.
So are still noisily at low speeds.

Steve

Fair, but considering every other piece of equipment US vs UK, the US version is better specc’ed, i suspect the Burkes have better sensors, sound dampening etc.

The UK has a bad habit of buying top end shells and then saving money below the surface, by not equipping them properly, allowing the MOD/Government to say they are tier 1 but not paying the cost of being it.

I remember reading a report of the lessons learnt from the falklands war, pretty much every line ended with the US already had this capability, biggest being radars that could track targets across land, but also everything else from CIWS, etc etc.

Meirion X

The Burkes were optimize for air defence.
They were not give much noise damping.
I read that a electric motor was fitted on one, but the trials turn out not to work well.

X

The Burkes were designed to replace not only Spurance, the USN’s mainstay ASW class, but also supplement the Tico class cruisers as AAW ships with AEGIS. They are quieter than the old T22 and T42 by some margin. Burkes have both a hull sonar, AN/SQS-53C, and a TAS, AN/SQR-19. Not only can they carry two helicopters, they also have STWS, and ASROC.

T23 thanks to its CODLAG propulsion and fixed pitch propeller is quiet. What I was hoping was with T26 that consideration would be given to the operation of a second and perhaps even a third Merlin. So while T23 is a better detection platform, Burke has a distinct edge on engagement. It can take hours to find a contact.

AKM

I could be mistaken but I thought that, depending on which flight they are from, the Burkes had either the towed sonar or the helicopters but not both at the same time.

X

Yes. I hammered that down a bit quick. I should have made note of the various differences between the flights. Two helicopters and ASROC still mean the Burke has greater flexibility in response. And I am right about the noise.

Rentaghost

Presumably some of that advantage over the old T22s is in the Prairie/Masker system: the controlled cavitation designed to mask the signature of the ship’s screws and machinery. I always assumed it had some form of self noise that with later generations of sonar would eat into any advantage it gave you. I also wondered if, from the point of view of the TAS, proximity to the source would mean that it’d actually still pick up the Burke’s machinery noise in addition to the Prairie self noise?

Obviously not an expert by any means, but it seems to me that the RN decided that DE power at low speed gave them a good edge in ASW but surprised they never developed an equivalent or simply bought a version of Prairie/Masker given its ubiquity on US ships…

Sunmack

Correct but I understand that they now do plan to fit towed arrays to the ships with the hangar

X

Yes they are, AN/SQR-20. But with such a large fleet of ships it isn’t correct to say all Burkes have hull sonar and TAS. The broad thrust of my original comment still stands.

There are 67 AB’s. 6 building and 4 more on order with a target for over 80.

Meirion X

The proposed FFG(X) frigates will most likely replace some of the earlier Flight 1 Burkes. It maybe too expensive for a one for one replacement with new Flight 3s, at about $2 billion apiece.

Duker

“The US Navy still equips its latest Arleigh Burke Flight III destroyers with deck-mounted triple torpedo tube ”
https://www.navylookout.com/mtls-and-asroc-killing-the-submarine-without-a-helicopter/
None of the Burkes in this story are Flight III

“Lockheed Martin has manufactured over 1,000 VLA [formerly ASROC] missiles since 1993 and the latest RUM-39C version carries the Mark 54 Lightweight Hybrid Torpedo (LHT). LM are keen to stress that other lightweight torpedoes could be readily accommodated. The costs of integrating Sting Ray onto VLA are unknown but it seems unlikely to be an especially complex or costly challenge. Sting Ray is fractionally lighter and shorter than the Mk54, although have the same NATO-standard 324m diameter.”
and
” The RN relies on more sophisticated soft-kill in the form of the S2170 Surface Ship Torpedo Defence (SSTD) system. On detection of a torpedo, it launches noise-making decoys and advises the OOW on the best speed and course for the ship to avoid being hit.” Nice

Meirion X

Stingray could be ASROC’ize, and launched from the Harpoon tubes on the T23s, or if not, launched by box launchers?

Gavin Gordon

I’m still flogging my horse over utilizing Stingray primarily in a point defence anti-torpedo role from onboard tubes, as you’re aware Meirion.

Duker

Burke I and II didnt even have on board helicopters , that was only indroduced in flight IIA from about 2000
In this story it shows as Porter without helos and Roosevelt with.

don

Which is why they’re as big as a WWII heavy cruiser! 🙂

Trevor Holcroft

If it was me I would make sure NOT to send a sub of our own but pretend and mimic having one.
The Russians could not detect it because its not there, but it would send them mad thinking that they had missed it.

But then, I’m also in favour of sending a tug, rather than frigate, to shadow Russian ships through the channel, flying the International flag, “Are you in distress?”

Cam

The type 23 has more than chopper, 8 have torpedo launchers and the best sonar and tail. Best sub hunters going, well the 8 we have, hence only 8 type 26 frigates to replace them. We need 10 minimum and 10 type 31s min.

X

Yes they have STWS too Cam. But the main system for prosecuting targets is the helicopter, has been for over 50 years. Gives you two advantages: One if you do use torpedoes you can bring them back. Two they allow you to firstly carry torpedoes way beyond the range of STWS, and secondly the helicopters own sensors improve the chances of finding the target at the extreme range of ship borne sensors. There are 8 T23 designated to carrier 2087. There are more than 8 sets of 2087. Refit cycles mean obvioulsy there won’t be 8 T23 at sea. We are getting 8 because of the budget not because it corresponds with the number of T23 fitted for 2087.

Gavin Gordon

With due respect, I say that you’ve kind of answered your own query, Steve, by referring to sub hunter. First you find them.
Regards

Fedaykin

Yes, very much so! HMS Kent has the latest upgrades including Sonar 2087. With her active towed array, cutting edge sound processing capability and paired with Merlin HM2 using the latest FLASH dipping sonar she is pretty much the Gold standard when it comes to surface ASW capabilities.

Ron

From my understanding the T23 is a quieter ship and still has one of the best sonar suites in the world, combined with its Merlin makes them a potentant AS platform. I wish that the T23 and for that matter the T26 would have the VL-ASROC. As for the Burkes, these are destroyers not frigates, large and make good all round carrier escort ships. Where the Dukes are designed to work alone in the submarine hunter role the Burkes are designed for the task group general defence role. Two diffrent types of ship to carry out two diffrnt tasks and as such should not be compared, the Burkes are the T45 equivalant.
What would be good is an Anti Submarine hunter group with two Dukes and a Burke, better yet a Hyuga, two T23s and a Burke. That would really give a submarine and an enemy air force something to think about. Would not mind 2-3 Hyuga’s for the RN, they would be a useful addition.

Greg

The President is the grown-up in the room!

Rick

People are lost in Donald Trump’s house of mirrors.

Michael

I’m sure you’re with the lot who thought Barack Obama was a god.

Rick

Not at all. I’m not a leftie. I’m staunch conservative. I agree with much of the Republican administration’s policies. My problem is with Trump the man, his constant lying in plain view, the narcissistic behaviour and his lack of intellect.

David Barry

He sucks his thumb rather than you sucking a dummy?

Danny Allen

It’s funny that a so-called news outlet takes a stab at the president just to show they really support the far left…. If you can’t tell the news just keep your mouth shut! I just wonder when you will support the Chinese??

don

Fox News is a hell of a drug, eh Danny?

David

I used to think this website was genuinely interested in saving the Royal Navy and promoting the UKs security, although based on continued articles like this, you are likely just BAE Systems or Lockheed Martin PR Shills. Probably why there are no names of your people listed here. To your credit though you haven’t tried to block me.

Meirion X

Talking of yourself, a Shill of the Kremlin?
You did promise last year, you won’t post again here!

Paddycdo

Stick to news articles, if i wish to read and “opinion piece” masquerading as news I will log on to the BBC news site

don

Nothing opinionated about it, tRUmp and his gang are a shower of filth, and they are wrecking the USA. Record number of civilian dead on a Presidential watch. Record debt. Record unemployment. What more do you need? You Rumpers are like Adolf’s last die-hards in the bunker, no amount of death and misery is good enough, victory is just around the corner…etc….you’ll be singing his praises as you choke on his filth.

andy reeves

any nation electing a washed up actor and a dodgy businessman to run it deserves all it gets

Cam

Let’s hope the Royal navys next destroyers will be as well armed as our American cousins, it’s crazy how we will have far more powerfull frigates than destroyers when the type26 comes along. Let’s get the mk41 silos put on our destroyers where they were designed to be asap and buy them in bulk with the type 26orders to save money. We could fit a 16 mk 41 silo and just one can hold 4 anti air missiles or one tomahawk or plenty other stuff even anti submarine rockets.

X

There is no fixed international meaning for the terms destroyer or frigate; the terms vary from country to country. In the UK a destroyer is an AAW escort and a frigate an ASW escort. They key word I think is escort. That is a ship that some capability in all other aspects of sea combat. So for example for T42, a destroyer, the primary weapon was Sea Dart, but they also carried a decent hull sonar in 2050 (2016) the same as the ASW ships. And T23, a frigate, primary systems sonars, but also has an excellent point defence missile system in Sea Wolf for AAW. The question is whether a ship with only its primary system, however good, is actually an escort, or something itself that needs to be escorted. Extras like TLAM etc are a bonus. The main reason why the RN has destroyers and frigates is because for a ship to house both an area AAW system and several sonar sets it would have to be large; ship size dictates then one primary system or another. Compare for size Arleigh Burke to T42 and T23.

Meirion X

The T45 also carries a decent hull sonar, a MFS Type 2091, it can operate passively.
It can use acoustic radiation to communicate.

AlexS

What else is special about that, you could say the same about WW2 sonar.

Meirion X

The Type 2091 sonar fitted to the T45, is a major advance on anything of WW2 era technology.
It has a stated range of 29.5km, it can detect and classify submarines, and can detect mines.
That is all I am going to tell you.
There is a lot more classified info.

andy reeves

i’m not old enough to understand all this electric stuff i served on the last major steam powered cruiser the navy hadh.m.s BLAKE. great ship great times

Meirion X

@X (Steve)
I expected you to vote me down in reply to your comment!
Still don’t like the T45?

X

The T45 is not a masterpiece of naval architecture. Shame that MoD(N) couldn’t come with something better to host Sea Viper. If you knew anything about ship design you wouldn’t have to ask about T45.

And please stop using my other username. Is Dern you sock puppet? Only seems to appear when you voice to back you over your supercilious pronouncements of the behaviour of those who dare have the temerity to disagree with you. This isn’t your website. You really are an aggressive nasty little creature. You never actually say anything do you? Just snipe in.

Meirion X

@X (Steve T)
Speaking of Yourself! You are the Arrogant nasty little creature, and of what Dern has said about You is 100% true!
You live a life of hissy fits in your twisted House of Mirrors!

andy reeves

the type 22 was almost designated as a destroyer even so far as when the docky painting the pennant on h.m.s brazen painted a ‘d’ instead of an ‘f’ on the side of the ship!!(oddly he was never seen again.

Phillip Johnson

Rather depends on the money available. Lots of people talk about defence in technical terms but it is really always about money. Brexit has gone silent but the future of he MOD probably depends on that as much as anything else.
Money matters, even the US is being squeezed, 355 ships seems to have died and there is a really good chance the Phase 111 Burkes will end up replacing the Tico’s for a net reduction in numbers.

Fred Wild

Russia is not even close to being a superpower. It has a GDP less than South Korea’s.

Duker

Seat on UN Security Council ..check. Land and Naval ICBMs..check.
South Korea may have a good GDP but it relies on the security blanket of the USA
Brazil has GDP greater than South Korea too, which shows that is a flawed ranking

borg

Apart from having Thousands of Nuclear Missiles !

Meirion X

Yes, all that with subs and a good size surface navy, for $65 billion a year!

don

And a strong ally in the tRump ‘administration’. MAGA.

Goofer

Leave the politics out of it, STRN. You are not serving the RN’s interests with this kind of cheap shot at the head of state of your principal ally.

Duker

Cheap shots ? Your comments should be directed at Trump himself. Trump does this all the time with Nato leaders yet is very ‘solicitous’ of Kim Jong Un. Go figure

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9469301/donald-trump-in-fresh-blast-at-theresa-mays-foolish-brexit-deal-and-slams-wacky-pompous-ambassador/

Will O

Trump was right though.

Will O

Why do people disagree lol, not as if that deal had any fans at the time was it? Trump objected because as drafted initially it would have prevented a UK/US trade deal.
Trump was stating the obvious, the deal didn’t get through Parliament did it, & the subsequent impasse ultimately brought down May’s tenure as PM & prompted the last General Election.

The Ambassador too was self evidently pretty awful too. Perhaps naughty of Trump to point it out so publicly maybe, but the Ambassador was such an obvious embarrassment there was hardly any disguising it.

andy reeves

they elect a washed out cowboy and a dodgy businessman as pres they get what they deserve chaos and disfunction.

don

He’s NEVER right. His party, also, is never right. Witness his ‘response’ to Covid-19, something his millionaire Dad isn’t going to be able to write a check to fix.

don

Not MY president. Not all of in the USA are deluded, FOX-hoovering idiots. Like most of the civilized world we’re horrified at what is being said and done in our name, and with our tax dollars. I applaud anyone calling out Rump and his shower for what they truly are.

andy reeves

everything about the u.s is fake they copy childrens bat and ball game rounders call it baseball the change the female sport of netball and call it basketball they call rugby league played by real men without padding and helmets and call it football.the americans follow a constitution which is a copy of the english magna carta its time they joined the real one not the imaginary one they think they’ve bought

andy reeves

americans think the world is for sale and sulk when their ‘allies don’t agree with them, the u.s is fast running out of friends among its ‘friends’

borg

On the occasions I pop in to read the excellent articles published here, i do wonder what the point of Up and Down votes are ?

Sunmack

I agree with you

X

I have spoken with the team behind the site and asked that very question. They want others to voice their opinions. What I find is there a clutch of individuals who rabble rouse and see themselves to be arbiters of truth. What mystifies me is that these individuals seem to know little about the sphere, that is when they something about the topic for more a than a few lines as they never pose real questions or expand on their thinking. I also think that somebody here manipulates the upvotes and down votes. If you look up the thread somebody even admits to knowing how to do it. The other day I posted a comment that simply said ‘The Royal Navy wanted in T45 a direct replacement for T42.’ and it got downvoted; that is a fact. Yet pure nonsense gets wildly upvoted. My worry is somebody new to the topic comes, sees the voting and then forms opinions on them. What upsets me greatly though is the words Royal Navy are everywhere across the site and there is tiny disclaimer somewhere to say it is nothing to do with RN and not official. If the site was called something like UK Maritime Security or something I wouldn’t mind so much. This whole column of comments is an embarrassment. But I doubt the site owners will do anything to reign in the trolls and bullies.

Will O

None of it is particularly important. Who actually cares? Compare this thread to the comments on RT referenced in the article, the comments here are rather tame in comparisson, not to mention a lot more knowledgeable & sensible, even where there’s disagreement.

X

Why reply then to my comment?

andy reeves

change the record. is it time for royal navy ships to fly big ensigns at sea like the americans do?

X

All the down votes do is prove my point. Keep it up.

Dern

All down votes prove is you are a moron. You litterally throw hissy fits about the comments section and resort to name calling and then act suprised when you get downvoted. If anyone is a troll and a bully it is you.

don

Haha. Got you. -14 now!

don

Mainly to tell idiots that they are idiots. It feels good and is a valuable public service.

Meirion X

With HMS Protector the Royal Navy could have an excuse to pursue patrols of the northern Arctic route to the Pacific, accompanied by a T45 and T23 and supply ship.
I read HMS Protector is an ice breaker as well.
Russia has made threats in the past against vessels sailing the northern Arctic route.

Don

There is a tilt to a Northern or Arctic Strategy.
Should the RN consider leasing another HMS Protector type vessel for an Arctic role? How much a priority would it be and would it drain resources from other programmes.

Still on the fence on this weighing up the pros and cons.

4thwatch

Janes saying Russia have declared a missile test zone for Northern waters where US/UK group operating. Could be interesting.

Duker

HMS Protector isnt a ‘heavy icebreaker’
“Protector has a 4 cm thick steel hull and is built to [Det Norsk Veritas] ICE-05 standard, capable of breaking sea ice up to a maximum of 1 metre in thickness (depending on the composition and age of the ice).
https://www.navylookout.com/in-focus-hms-protector-the-royal-navys-antarctic-patrol-ship/

However the DNV classification gives ICE05 , ICE10 and ICE15 as suitable for 0.5m, 1.0m and 1.5m thickness with no ramming. Higher classifications are Polar 10, 20, 30 etc.
So in fact HMS Protector is only suitable for light ice ( 0.5m) and wouldn’t be suitable for Arctic ice where the really heavy breakers are used.

Steve Harding

As a Brit who was going to donate to your website, I find you’re political comments completely out of order.
Stick to your subject and not pass anti-American Left-wing Liberal opinions, against friends of our country.
No donation. Winchester Hants U.K.

Michael

To the editors of STRN, a word of friendly advice: Don’t wade into American politics.
1. As an American I don’t give a Tinker’s damn what you or any non American thinks of my president.
2. Don’t ruin what is a great website by going political. The US Naval Institute is in my opinion, a shadow of it’s former self because the Chief editor has knowingly allowed the site to become a repository for political views, to the point that I seldom go there now.
I have enjoyed your site for several years now, and would like to continue to do so, so please, don’t go political.

don

‘Tinker’s damn’. What are you, 100? Go back to Fox and whatever else Rupert Murdoch thinks you should think. This American despises tRump, along with a majority of my fellow Americans. Your kind is dying off, good riddance.

Stefan
  1. As European i think you, your tRump and your whole country have some serious problems.
Jonnynottsville

Hey, less criticism of Capt Heelspurs please! Hope no-one brings up the subject of Daddy’s paid Dr’s, writing multiple deferments for dear little Donald.