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It is very exciting. Odd to think we used to have assets all along that red dotted line once upon a time not so long ago.


Oh and dont forget the 10% of GDP defence budget that supported that


You are going to get me tearing up.

I could say we didn’t waste as much money back then.


Has it been definitively stated that these ships cannot transit the Panama canal?


Old locks beam limit – Panamax – 32.2m.

New locks beam limit – neo Panamax – 50m.

QNLZ max beam 70m.


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Meirion X

The USN CVN’s make it though Panama!
The beam at water -line is much less then deck level.

Last edited 2 years ago by Meirion X

No they haven’t. Ever. Waterline beam is around 40m. The sponsons exceed the lock beam about 10m above that.

Meirion X

You right! The last carrier to go through Pam. was USS Valley Forge (CV-45).
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Stephen Ball

Seen somewhere a air tanker will be forward deployed to Oman.

Plus I’m sure air tanker support from Japan.

Last edited 2 years ago by Stephen Ball

Considering the allied nations we’ll want to exercise with and try to drum up diplomatic goodwill or trade visits to Australia and then heading back via the Middle East and Med is the most likely path.

We could also see one or two ships peeling off from the main group to make visits to smaller locations off the route east – Diego Garcia whilst the bulk of the CSG trains with the Indian Navy further north for example.


Given the carrier has a bit of space going spare. Couldn’t we send the red arrows along as cargo. They have never done a display down under due to the max range of the Hawk. I would love to see them over the harbour bridge.

Stephen Ball

Seeing as all new ship’s will be getting Sea Ceptor, How many Sea Wolf are left? Could they be used for training say fire 20 SW then 4 SC in a training cycle, with out of service date for Type 23 2035 for the last ship?

Plus any detail’s on how many spare part’s are around for the Type 23?

Last edited 2 years ago by Stephen Ball

The RN has completely phased out the Sea Wolf. When SC is fitted to a T23 all of the equipment for Sea Wolf including the large, heavy and high up control radars is removed from the ship.

Stephen Ball

So the missiles will be sold on.

Last edited 2 years ago by Stephen Ball

Highly unlikely. Depends on whether within shelf-life. Refurbing missiles reassuringly expensive……

Paul T

Both Chile and Brazil are going over to CAAM/Sea Ceptor as well,no other Sea Wolf users AFAIK.


Malaysia on Lekiu-class light frigate, and Indonesia on Bung Tomo-class corvette carry Sea Wolf SAMs.

Phillip Johnson

I will make a bet that neither have actually fired one.


Lekiu did. Easily found on the web. Lekiu is the main stay of the Malaysian Navy for more than two decades. Actively used. Sad that their next generation frigate/corvette did not adopt CAMM, but MICA.

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Do not know about Bung Tomo-class.


Be great if they visited Chile, Falklands and a stop over at River Plate on the way back. (With a call in at Brazil so they can put in their orders for used T23s in a few years


Haha the Argies would kick off big time. Maybe if they acquire some military hardware it would be a good reminder to have a jolly about the South Atlantic reminding them the capability we now have.


Due to the economic woes of Argentina, thier military is in dreadful shape. The Argie navy has practically ceased to exist as a functional force.
If the QE task force pays a visit, the Argentines can complain, and that is about all they can do.

A Garcia

I note Gibraltar is on the planned route but, will she actually stopover there ?


Is transiting the Suez free for military ships? I recall reading they get priority to go through.

And I hope to see imagery of exercises with both US Navy and French CBGs, What a sight that would be!


Did a similar deployment in 1979. We came back the same way went out via Aus & NZ not sure the ships crews will have such a great time though with all the Covid restrictions. Plus aren’t Bugis Street and Kings Cross Sydney all gentrified these days, shore patrols probably won’t be as busy then.
A mis-spent youth travelling the globe with the RN and getting paid for it ‘THOSE WERE THE DAYS’


I think they will find any major city like say Perth and Brisbane has its lively night time entertainment district now and the same throughout Asia. I would have though the RN crew would be more interested in ‘adventure’ tourism activities these days after all bars are clubs are much the same all over.


With the Australian continent in lockdown for the foreseeable future, I don’t think that any sailors will be taking in liberty there.


Australia is not in lockdown, its in lockout, as in international arrivals must quarantine. But I suppose by later in the year a vaccination could get you in. Cant imagine RN sailing around the world without its sailors being vaccinated anyway.


We will see. Morrison is very prickly on the subject. I agree it would be bloody awful for sailors to steam halfway around the planet and not be able to visit

Last edited 2 years ago by Michael

It’ll be a real shame and a missed opportunity if not a single RN ship sails through the Taiwan Strait. I can understand maybe not the full CSG, but a T45 or T23 at least.
We need to prove to our potential allies in the region- particularly South Korea and Japan, but also the 5 Powers, that we won’t just talk about how bad China are being, but are willing to take some actions- even ones as relatively benign as a FONOP through contested waters.

Trevor H

One thing not mentioned is or are submarines.
A sub will not be going through the Suez Canal. Is there a point in having one with it on the Med? So will a RN sub join the exercise after leaving the canal.

Shame it cannot go back via Madiera, I’d try to make it there if the schedule were fixed early enough.


They can and do transit the Suez mate, saves a few miles driving round the Cape and up to the AG.


I think Trev means there won’t be one present not that they can’t transit the Canal.

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David Graham

exactly. I have a nice image of Triumph transiting the canal northbound.

David Barry

Go to Youtube. Couple of vids about life onboard a sub, one of which is transiting the Suez.

Email Ittome

Why not stop over to South Korea and show them what an F35 carrier can look like? Since technical assistance was offered to Korean government by the UK industry, it would be a good opportunity to show them what they can look forward to, albeit in a smaller format.

Mike B

This CSG should leave Portsmouth as a CSG.
As it’s HMS Queen Elizabeth’s first deployment her flight deck should have some F35.
This would prove we do have aircraft.
The rest of the CSG leavening together would show the British tax payers where their money’s spent.
It would reassure our Allies and give notice to our foes.

I doubt it will happen,the ships will quietly leave watched by a few hundred well wishers.

Stephen Ball

Sure you’ll want the T23 out before, looking for Subs as that’s what they are built for.


I don’t think there will be anybody out there so I wouldn’t worry. As Mike says the photo op would be good publicity.

Supportive Bloke

A CSG normally groups up in open water.

Not everything is based or stationed in the same port.

Sanitising home waters can be done using P8 and/or T23 and/or fixed assets. Doesn’t really need T23 unless you are sending a message.

Phillip Johnson

Seeing as the USN has turned back that pair of Burkes we shall see if this deployment will happen. What good it would do anyway I don’t know. Remember the MoD has to ask the Turks for permission to transit the straits. It is interesting to note the Americans asked permission for their ships in mid-March just at the same time as the Ukrainians mobilised towards the ceasefire line, which prompted the Russian response. The Ukrainian is a long way away and not concern.

Meirion X

The same thing was said about Czechia in 1938, which led to Poland in 39 and WW2. Just another far away country!
Don’t you ever learn any lessons of history?

Last edited 2 years ago by Meirion X
Meirion X

Ukraine is Not too far away from our usual holiday destinations!
Yes very much our concern!

Last edited 2 years ago by Meirion X

There are many things I dislike about sites like this. One of them is ignorance paraded as truth and virtue by somebody who thinks they are knowledgeable but really are very ignorant. Trotting out half understood lessons from history. Only going with head line story as put out by the MSM. That first comment of your’s was poor. The other thing I dislike is war mongering. And sites like this are full of fantasists like you who think war is a bit of fun and a game. It is not that all. The Ukraine is far away. It doesn’t impact us here. If you think it does you are utterly delusional. Russia doesn’t have the equipment or war stores to invade Western Europe. They have no intention. They have no need. To think otherwise tells me you know nothing about the topic. Holiday destinations? Wow………..

Meirion X

“There are many things I dislike about sites like this.”

So why bother posting here then, Mr Taylor?

The rest of your reply, you are more or less speaking of Yourself, of a very self-righteous mindset!
And full of ignorance of history as well!
And an appeaser of adversaries!

It is you who is the fantasist here, Mr Taylor!

Last edited 2 years ago by Meirion X
Meirion X

Also, why are You posting on this site then, if you are opposed to war?

It very much seems you are posting on the Wrong site then, You better go to the Peacenik site then!

Defence occasionally means war!

Last edited 2 years ago by Meirion X
Meirion X

Some of RN warships have recently finished refits and Upgrades, HMS’s Dauntless, Duncan and Portland, they could be sent to the Black sea.


No SSN support. Is this likely to be true or just unannounced?

Meirion X

A red herring, maybe!


Although American carriers are equipped with anti-aircraft missiles (ESSM). If an aircraft carrier has to resort to anti-aircraft missiles, it means that the frigates in its task force are at the bottom of the ocean. It will then be pointless to fight the enemy with short range air defense missiles.

The type 45 destroyers, HMS Defender and HMS Diamond are each equipped with 48 type Aster 15 / 30 anti-aircraft missiles. With a maximum range of 75 miles (120 km).

The Dutch ship HNLMS Evertsen is equipped with 40 MK-41 cells that can fire a combination of up to 160 missiles. The HNLMS Evertsen is equipped with SM-2 and ESSM missiles with a maximum range of 100 miles (167 km).

The USS Sulivans has 90 MK-41 cells for a combination of ESSM / SM-2 / SM-3 / SM-6 missiles. The SM-6 has a maximum range of 150 miles. If fully loaded it can destroy the entire airforce of France.

This seems more than enough to protect the HMS Queen Elizabeth from air threats. Not even counting the anti-aircraft missiles on the type 23 frigates and the F35B fighters on the QE.

Last edited 2 years ago by Robert`