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Phil Owen

Superb article, zero “hyperbole” unlike a lot of other commentaries

Donaldson

Great practise for the Shakies and supporting folks, Two incidents like this already in as many years I wonder if it’s going to become more common..

Steven

With “friends” like the French, of course it will.

Dan Jordan

Once again, I thought British people had more common sense than that. My mistake apparently. Like the rest of the world, just blame your neighbours for what is wrong in the world. It just easier to do it seems.

Duker

Common sense ? The French like many other EU countries flout the established policies (asylum or detain and return to home country) on ‘irregular migrants’ as long as they are heading elsewhere – usually to UK
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_20_1707

borg

RFA Sir Tristram is used for training, she sits at anchor in Portland Harbour. RFA Tiderace is there too.

Cam

Portland harbours huge!

borg

It is mate, I was there at the Weekend exploring the Verne Citadel Area, Sir Tristam Is used by the SBS to train for this very scenario. I believe that Portland Harbour is one of the largest Deep Water ports in Europe. It also has two of the Mulberry Casements.

Stuart D Dangerfield

I was in prison in the Verne…

borg

Oh ! What’s it like inside, I was amazed at the Size and amount of work it must have taken ?

Duker

Falmouth is deeper and is one of the ‘biggest natural harbours ‘ in the world ?, not just Europe. Portland harbour is largely artificial of course
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falmouth_Docks

borg

At the time it was Built, It was the largest in the World a massive task back in a time before JCB’s ! Impressive to view.

Cam

Well the Ozzie’s claim bigger don’t they?

Cam

I wish to venture that way, paint balling or the like on Sir Tristan would be amazing.. are you on UKDJ?? I got barred I think…but I want to Comment again but can’t! Something I said about the Holocaust I think but they’ve said nothing to me!! I’ve sent 5 emails asking why I can’t Comment no more but no response from a George or team…

borg

Was on there a while back mate, used to like your posts, Won’t say my name on there though as I left after a fair few years after falling foul of the ” Impartial” aspect ! I still look in and read most of the posts though, Absolutely Astonished at some of their knowledge on every single subject. Why were you banned ?

Cam

I mentioned the Holocaust!

Cam

Yeah, I tried posting with my other emails and still won’t work, I think it’s my IP address they’ve banned, but I can still read! They won’t respond to emails either… the Holocaust is a no no I guess…I wasn’t denying it it just came up in conversation mate…

Bloke back down the pub

I hope this event doesn’t go putting ideas into the heads of terrorists. The scenario where a ship like the Nave Andromeda is taken over and then rammed into Portsmouth Harbour must give the authorities sleepless nights as there could be very little time to react. Even if it didn’t reach the carriers, just blocking the entrance for several weeks would be a major blow. I’d be surprised if Vlad doesn’t have a plan for using some of his little green men to cause trouble at an inopportune moment.

borg

Vlad was developing some kind of Nuclear Torpedo a few years back for that very purpose, not sure if it was true.

Stuart D Dangerfield

Nuclear torpedoes have been a reality for years it was the Soviets go to weapon for dealing with US Carrier Battle Groups. I believe the US has a few as well but I know the Soviets has many of them.

Duker

Soviets developed ‘rocket’ powered torpedoes…and yes they worked underwater . US no longer has nuclear warheads for its torpedoes

Michael

CD the Soviet Union ceased to exist over 25 years ago

Duker

Yes , thats who developed them, the factory is now in Kyrgyzstan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval

borg

Poseidon, Status 6, Kanyon, The Tsunami Torpedo is a bit different to those, if true.

Sebastian

That scenario ist the reason, that die new OPVs of the german federal police are armed with 56 mm guns… And with a heavy lacking tanker in a harbour i think it will speak about several months.

Merlot

Irregular ship movements are monitored so closely these days that a suspect vessel should be dealt with before reaching its intended target.

Cam

But what if there original port of call say Portsmouth is their destination and decide to suddenly change course into our naval assets, bombs setting off huge oil fires ect ect, authority’s couldn’t react in time

Last edited 8 months ago by Cam
Merlot

As foreign vessels have to accept a UK pilot onboard prior to entering port, any evil intent would become obvious well offshore. Marine traffic is extremely well monitored around the UK. Not saying an event such as you describe couldn’t happen … but highly unlikely.

borg

It’s such an obvious threat that I’m sure that measures are in place, well I’d hope they were ! HMS Campbeltown Springs to mind. The entrance to Portsmouth is a tad Tight for larger Vessels and Pilots are normally on board.

Cam

yeah but one shot to the head puts him out of action….

Rob Collinson

A fabulous, balanced and informative article. A great job!

Steven

“This cannot be described as a terrorist incident or even a planned hijacking, rather a spectacularly bungled attempt at illegal immigration.” IYeah right, they’ll be released into UK streets in a few days

Merlot

Given the severity of the crime committed, I doubt if we will see them pacing UK streets anytime soon.

Steven Jones
Jim

Alas, I think you will find they will be out very soon. Illegal entry doesn’t count against you in an asylum claim as that might be the only way to travel.

Ian

Don’t be surprised there is enough snowflakes in the uk,to help the likes of the afghani terrorists who high jacked a plane and they were welcomed with open arms,and are walking the streets with not a care in the world, and all the benefits they want.

D J

There is always the Australian solution. Pack them off to somewhere they don’t want to be. If you are really a refugee than anywhere safe is a win. I am told the Falklands can be reasonably nice in summer.

Grant

Best description of what happened that I have read. Thank you for product STRN.

Roll forward 12 months the stowaways will be in detached houses taking home £500 quid a week in benefits, the Helicopters and ships used in the incident will have been binned because ‘we can’t afford them’ or because Cummings thinks we can just use ‘Cyber’ in these situations…

Challenger

I image these sorts of attempts are only going to increase. Unfortunately individuals will get the message that they can stow away, cause whatever damage or harm they like and then be brought into the UK to be arrested, at which point they can immediately request asylum and drag the process though the courts and appeals process for years.

They’ll be released on probation or something similar so worst case scenario they know they can simply vanish into society and stay off the grid if their application fails.

Jim

Don’t need to disappear. They will be released on immigration bail and likely claim political asylum due to the ongoing unrest in Nigeria.

Even if found not eligible for asylum, they will likely be able to delay the system for long enough to claim under Blair’s foolish human rights act (good intention but forgot that many seek to take advantage) or family rights

Peter S.

All too likely, I’m afraid. The whole asylum industry is out of control, paid for by your taxes and mine and aggressively promoted by the UN. There is only one solution to stop Europe(and especially UK with its easily accessible language and benefits system) from being overwhelmed. End the right of asylum altogether for at least the next 10 years. The shyster lawyers will lose their goldmine and judges will have no role. Otherwise, this nonsense will go on and on, because half the world’s population could make an arguable claim under present protocols.

Jim

As much as I know that the asylum process is being abused, and it really is, we should never stop offering asylum to those who are genuinely being persecuted. This is something that the UK should be rightly proud of.

What we do need to do is to better remove those who are refused asylum and illiminate the ability for people to get right to stay just because they have delayed the system, married a UK citizen or parented a child.

Equally we need to strengthen the low burden of proof against which asylum seekers evidence is measured.

Finally, we need to bring in the harsh environment for anyone with no right to be here. Perhaps now is the time for everyone to have id cards. No id card no access to services

Last edited 8 months ago by Jim
Peter S.

I really don’t think better application will make any difference. The UN has effectively widened the criteria so the bar is now set very low. Anyone who can get into the country will enjoy full legal advice on how to concoct a persuasive sob story. We are one of the most overpopulated countries on earth and migration is making this worse. We have done more than our fair share on asylum for decades. We need to stop.

Jim

The UN hasn’t actually changed the criteria –

“A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.”

The issue is fourfold:

1) Following the genocides of WW2, and the global shame of failure to act, the burden of proof was set at a very low standard (failing to account that people might lie & increased ease of travel)

2) The UK and EU (Gov and Judges) have then lowered the standards of other grounds to stay – health issues, available medical care, documents required for return, time in country, family rights etc

3) Judges (UK and EU) along with liberal hand wringers have made it hard to return anyone (more so without papers), and countries often dont want discontented citizens back

4) It is easy to continue to access services in UK even if no right to be here

So no incentive for people not to come nor go home

Peter S.

The 1951 UN declaration massively widened the scope of refugee status, largely as you note to address the massive displacement of people in ww2. Prior to ww2, the status was effectively limited to individuals facing persecution as individuals. The extension to whole groups of people in 1951 has been reinforced by subsequent general .(1967) and area specific protocols. The result of these and of UNHCR reactions to various local or regional difficulties has widened the effective definition even further. Thus anyone living in a country with higher levels of poverty and disorder is now seen as having a claim, even though there is no well founded fear of persecution as an individual. Since the 1967 protocol, it appears that a civil war in a half Shia, half Sunni country would allow the whole population to claim refugee status.
This has become nonsensical and unsustainable.
I agree entirely with your comments on the exacerbation of the UK problem.

Something Different

First there is no excuse for the (alleged) actions of the hijackers of this vessel and they should face the full consequences of the law. This seems to be a well coordinated action to bring things to a swift end with no bloodshed, well done to those included in the operation.

Second let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. Migrants in general and asylum seekers in particular are trying to find a better life for themselves. If you were in their position you would probably do the same. The UK happens to be one of the richest nations in the world and has the capacity to help others. And before you say ‘what about our own poor’, well that had to do with government policy resulting in an ever increasing wealth gap between the top and the bottom.

Bob

Couldn’t agree more. We’re a fabulously wealthy nation and that brings with it a duty to those less fortunate. It is always galling that some people will take advantage but if we’re a truly great nation we can take that on the chin. If it turns us into sour individuals who think everyone in need is a threat, we might still be rich but we won’t be great.
I’m in my second career teaching in a very selective state school and 90% of my students are from immigrant backgrounds. Why? Because their parents didn’t move heaven and earth to get here so they could sit on benefits. They have drive and ambition and they’re here to contribute.

TrevorH

And the French, that is its government and its self serving civil servants – not its people or armed forces, close a blind eye to their responsibilities.

4th watch

Les Marais Francais.

Babz

Brilliant co ordination of all n well sbs ..it’s not to becmessed with
As for France and Mercon …i🙁🙁😕😕 i musn’t use bad language

Dan Jordan

You know what, I am fed up with the French bashing that is going these days. Had the situation been reversed and if the ship was aiming at France and not the UK. The UK government would have refused access as well. Fortunately, there was no casualty in the rescuing. That just proves that the SAS is well-organised and professional force to be reckon with. I can hear everything but stop the silly finger pointing. France is not responsible for everything that is going on.

Last edited 8 months ago by Dan Jordan
borg

SBS.

Dan Jordan

SBS indeed, thank you for correcting me.

Steven Jones

When someone starts “You know what…..”, you know its going to be unintentionally funny. No doubt authored by an anti-BREXIT male “Karen” 🤣🤣🤣

Danny Peters

operating small boas”

Wait. The SBS have snake handlers?

borg

They have a long Hissssssstory.

Jim

Alas, the gov might as well have saved some money by:

1) Contacting to ship to see if these were people who would be claiming asylum

2) If they were, tell them that they will be allowed to claim asylum

3) Send swissport staff to help them unload with their bags.

Regardless of how people come here, current law allows people to claim asylum whether they break the law or not. the government knows this – so might as well have saved the pennies.

But it looks good on tv

Stuart D Dangerfield

So the French refused them as well as helping all their own illegals to cross the channel. So now these guys get four star hotel accommodation and men that were willing to slip. Into our country and when thwarted were willing to attempt to seize control of a ship and now we have to have them here. It is bloody ridiculous. We must send them back we know. Where they came from so they go back.. They won’t they will he put up in Hotels and will join the British population. They will keep coming as long as we keep making them at home. It makes me sick seeing British people sleeping in doorways in Croydon High Street while total foreigners who enter this country illegally go into hotels. Our own people sleep rough in the streets while illegal immigrants by the tens of thousands sleep in nice warm hotels. There is something very wrong somewhere…..

Something Different

I suspect even if they came here legally you wouldn’t like it. If one of the richest nations on earth cannot home its people (and is that really and English thing because Scotland has a legal obligation to provide accommodation, I do not know about the other nations), then is that not more about government policy failure and/or prioritisation? Would you be willing to be taxed more to bring the homeless of the streets?

Andy

It’s usually more to do with mental health and addiction issues. Having been in that situation it’s not that hard to access agencies and get you into accommodation and help. The trouble is many distrust authority and are trying to live out of society. Extremely complex issue

X

It’s been a good few days for incidents around the coast.

http://www.hisutton.com/images/Russian-Navy-off-Scotland.jpg

Deep32

Almost like the good old days of the cold war!! Might actually do some good and raise the profile of Defense with the population at large. That might make the politicians take a bit more notice. Well, one can only hope……..

X

We steam about in seas near to them; those are international waters It isn’t them doing it so much as we don’t have assets to go to take a look see and show the flag as it were. The Rivers are OK. But too few in number and too large for many security tasks around our coast.

Deep32

Probably a bit tit for tat, what with Dragon having been in the Black sea just recently and our little excursion up into the Barents the other month. The Bears and Blackjacks doing the air thing, we just can’t really respond as we no longer have any assets with the legs to go up around the corner-dont think we’re quite willing to dispatch a P8 to reciprocate just yet.

Then of course there are the SMs…….

X

It would be a waste of frame hours to send an MPA. But it would be nice if we had something not too big, and not too small, just to ‘visit’ them. Every country does it. All part of the games.

Duker

Frame hours ? The P-8 is a commercial airframe/engine which life far exceeds any possible military use of say 500hrs per year in peacetime.
Often its to give the aircrew enough hours to keep them operational that they would fly out and just go round in circles

X

Just an expression for usage that is all. Flying hours could have done. Perhaps don’t think you have to correct everything everybody says? Is it for the discourse or to parade your knowledge?

Duker

Not all all, maybe 50 people read the comment , its for them not you. Im sure you know these things anyway..however

X

Good point. 🙂

Phillip Johnson

2 amazing things:

  1. the captain of a Liberian flagged vessel knew and followed the manual
  2. there were 22 crew aboard.
DaveyB

StRN, you missed the bit where the ship tried to call into a Las Palmas in the Canaries prior to going to France.

borg

Is this a record ? Almost no downvotes throughout the entire Thread apart from the one post. Great work Chaps, lets keep things nice here.

X

No I have downvotes as normal. The site doesn’t care how it looks to the outside. Makes me think they aren’t really serious about their cause.

borg

I’ve cancelled as many as I can though and It looks like others have done the same too. the more times this Issue is brought up, the better the chance that “Admin” will do something Positive and remove this ugly feature. Many other Sites have done so and they become nicer places with the emphasis on News and information that is why we all visit these places.

X

I have just had all my recent posts downvoted.

It is weird to think somebody actually gets off on it.

Mick Sturbs

Operation was led by the RAF. #Bintheroyalnavy

borg

Ha, Humour, Obviously given that the RNAS Merlins and Wildcats combined with the SBS and HMS Richmond to pull it off. Amazing effort by the RAF though.

Mick Sturbs

No no. RAF chinooks led the air assault.

Supportive Bloke

Wasn’t there a Vulcan “what won it?”

borg

Well If so, I’m guessing It took 14 In-flight Re-Fuellings by Victor Tankers.

Geo

I’m refreshing Twitter every minute for the press realise from RAF_Luton on that exact subject 🙂

borg

I think RAF Luton stated it was RAF Chinooks, earlier !

Geo

RAF_Luton are a very authoritative source, I defer to their judgement.

borg

Oh, I thought it was the two Merlins and two Wildcats together with the SBS and support from HMS Richmond, never realised that the RAF did it all on their own !!!!!!

Mick Sturbs

Chinooks led the air assault, merlins followed with the wildcats. Probably best you publish facts instead of whatever this is

borg

Oh Dear , another keyboard warrior has turned up.

borg

OK, The Facts. RAF Chinook en route to Portsmouth transferred SBS Operatives to Two Merlins and were supported by two wildcats from the Royal Navy based at RNAS Yeovilton from which they Descended by Rope on to the Hijacked ship in an operation lasting approx 9 minutes whilst support was given by HMS Richmond. That good enough for you bud ?

Mick Sturbs

Wrong. I know this is a page is about the Navy but the RAF Chinooks led the air assault and were the first aircraft to rope to the tanker. Merlins followed some time after with the supporting troops. Still a win for RNAS but your article is factually incorrect for the crucial part.

borg

Wrong. You need to Check your Facts. Oh and this is not my article so, Wrong again. What Is your point mate ? Do you not read the official Reports? are you just here to give grief? I’ve not seen one report where your Chinooks “led” the Assault.

Mick Sturbs

You may not have seen it in your ‘official’ reports but thats the way it went down, I promise you. I’m just trying to get the facts straight because this article is wrong and doesn’t give the any credit to the RAF, just that it was purely a Navy mission.

X

Two Chinooks went to Poole to collect the team and kit.

The helicopters used in the interception were Merlin and Wildcat from the QR flight.

Mick Sturbs

Not true.

X

I have cancelled your down vote. Why your comment got one I don’t know.

X

SBS operation. Chinooks took them closer, helicopters used in the interception RN.

Mick Sturbs

SF operation so they used SF Chinooks for the interception. The RN helicopters were part of the same team for sure but it was Chinook led from and airborne perspective

X

No. The Chinooks went to Poole to collect the SBS. They were moved to a site closer to the IoW / Pompey. And then moved to two Merlin from 846 who currently provide support for the maritime counter-terror role. Supported by two Wildcat from 815.

All the Chinooks were were buses.

Not RAF lead.

X

Do you have some odd RAF fixation? I know many who inhabit sites like this suffer from that malady.

But what I think annoys me most was I tried to be fair and disentangle the situation and you just carry on dripping.

Last edited 8 months ago by X
Mick Sturbs

I know differently, its ok.

X

You need to explain yourself more fully.

X

So have you just down voted all my posts on this question?

I have checked. Merlin and Wildcat were involved in the action, Chinook just provided transport.

Chinook led from and airborne perspective?

No.

Andy

Well where is your info from cos I can’t find it. Never seen sf repel from chinook

X

It is done. But not when you have better options from a flight specially trained for maritime ops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUlXR3NEa4s&ab_channel=damonZ

Something Different

This inter service rivalry stuff is a little old hat. Need to think ‘joint’ about this and remember either way that it is this nation’s taxpayers funding whichever branch is executing a given mission. Personally I do not care if it is Her Majesty’s carrier pigeon handling corps that does the job, as long as it gets done well.

Last edited 8 months ago by Something Different
X

I am just wondering why fly two Merlin tasked with maritime counter terrorism if the Chinooks were already up to the job. Makes no sense. Wildcat yes. But not the Merlin.

But Sturbs knows better.

Duker

Training of aircrew is more important than the airframe. My guess is the SBS and Merlins work together routinely and for exactly this sort of thing

X

846 are responsible for air support for maritime counter terrorism.

But Sturbs knows better.

A Merlin has enough down draught as it is never mind a Chinook if you are repelling on to a deck crowded with equipment as tankers have.

borg

In other News, thanks HMS Bristol.

X

Yes. Shame.

Duker

Is it the only Falklands ship still afloat?
The chance to save HMS Plymouth was lostcomment image
https://www.navylookout.com/the-warship-preservation-scene/

borg

Well Yes but RFA Sir Tristram is too and HMS Conqueror and a few others but are all decommissioned. I’m bound to be wrong though !

borg

There were 23 Submarines visible on GM, last time I looked at Devonport, Faslane and Rosyth, some of them would have been there during the conflict. A few other ships may still be listed in Brazil, India and Pakistan.

Deep32

HMS Splendid is one of those decommissioned units, not too sure where shes laid up though, same goes with the O boats, though suspect they might be razor blades by now.

borg

I believe she is at Devonport along with Conqueror and probably the others of her class.

borg

There are 14, possibly another in dry dock, if you look at Google Maps.

Deep32

Yes, the article on Navy Heritage on this site earlier has a good phot of 3 Basin with a host of decommissioned Nucs tied up.

I know the 4 R boats are at Rosyth, along with several SSNs, just not sure which ones.

Going to come to a head in the not too distant future when someone has to decide on how they are going to be disposed of! That will not be cheap!!

borg

It’s an ongoing problem that’ll only cost more the longer it takes. I know bugger all about it other than it takes an enormous amount of time, effort and know how, not to mention ££££££’s Same for every other country too though.

Duker

Checked it out, Sir Tristram is moored in Portland harbour and is used by SBS for training purposes, likely similar to what happened in this story

borg

Yes mate, that’s why I mentioned it, she doesn’t look to good now though 38 years after being bombed.

Donaldson

This post shows a couple of lads who went out for a paddle and actually boarded her! Shows her current state and some of the training targets and left over smoke grenades etc..

https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/rfa-sir-tristram-portland-harbour-dorset-august-2014.119848/

X

In RN service nothing other than those listed below.

The Castles are with the Bangladeshi navy. Type 21’s with the Pakistanis?

Smudger

And no mention of the “Massive” ?

borg

Any Chance we can see a new thread please ? I’d love to see the new French Carrier one.

Sam

HMS Bristol is being decommissioned 🙁 news broke 28th Oct

IwanR

Is that winch with limited flying controls common in other helicopters or just the Merlin? Living in a pirate infested and disaster prone area, it sounds very useful to have.