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Ian

I think is good analysis. The best hope for me is that the Govt finally begin to believe in an investment led approach to getting out of our stasis ironically with Trump & DUP kicking ass. Aid budget up again this year so happy days.

Challenger

It would have been nice if the author of this piece had left their own political opinions out of the matter and stuck to the facts, or at least gave equal criticism to Teresa May instead of regurgitating phrases like ‘magic money tree’ and ‘IRA sympathies’ when they have little-nothing to do with the state of the British Armed Forces.

It would be foolish to pretend that Jeremy Corbyn is an ardent or passionate supporter of the military and defence issues, but he doesn’t represent the wider attitudes of the party and it would for example be extremely unlikely that a Corbyn government would get sufficient cross bench support for scrapping Trident. During the election campaign he also repeatedly said the Royal Navy needs more ships which stands contrary to the idea of an across the board policy of slash and burn should he ever become PM.

Ian

The problem that so many people have (myself included) is that whilst the party might understand and believe in the power of deterrence, the instructions to captains are written by the PM, not the party or the cabinet. However much I might wish it, I no more believe that he would write those letters or invest in defence than Leicester City will win the league again. I also believe that talk of the frigates was deflection to make people believe he really was OK. My own opinion was reinforced with Corbyn’s comments from Glastonbury. There are many good people in Labour who understand strong defence does not make one a war whore or that the issue of defence can’t be seen through the singular prism of Iraq. Nae Bevan would have been one such person. He wanted nuclear weapons with a British flag on top and thus he would be unlikely to be welcome in Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Cabinet. When Labour is trusted to keep the country safe and the economy strong it will be a contender for power again but not until.

Kieran

“When labour Is trusted to keep the country safe and the economy strong it will be a contender for power again but not until”

Hahahahah

Honest question do you watch the daily news, keep up to date with politics from the MSM, New media and social media?

I think the answer must be no, because if there was an election tomorrow Ian labour would win a landslide, the media are saying it, labour are saying it, even tories are admitting it on TV.

Chris Jones

Does labour central send out a list of sites for you corbynbots to troll?

Cameron Rose

…In what way is he “trolling” everything he’s said is perfectly reasonable, Corbyn wouldn’t be able to scrap trident, the article does regurgitate Tory statements, and polls do suggest that Labour would win an election if we had one tomorrow.

Matt

It’s also worth noting that Scottish voters moved towards Labour and the Liberal Democrats at the general election. With the Labour Party picking up 27.1% of the popular vote verses 28.6% for the Conservatives.

Nigel Trew

The Royal Navy is short of 4 Destroyers and 7 Frigates at least, critical mass was lost when the Labour government scrapped the Type 22 bach 3 Frigates as well as selling 2 type 23,s, then reducing the order of the Type 45. The Royal Navy would need to depend on NATO to help defend HMS Queen Elizabeth and her sister. The carrier’s have no Missiles of there own, and a type 45 only carries 48. When upgrading Russian submarines will carry as many as 80 anti ship Missile each. Just a thought.

Ian

Agree with thrust of this although some of the new SAMs will be quad packed and there’s also the Frigates. QE having no stand alone missile CIWS is the art of madness for a £10bn loaded asset, never mind the loss of capability and crew.

Jeff

Gee I never realised Cameron was Labour (Type 22 Batch 3 Decommissioned 2011 and reduced number of Darings) You learn something new every day!

Cameron Rose

Oh my god please , can you cut out the name calling, Corbyns lot are not marxists, I will grant you that they are far-left socialists, but that is in no way the same thing. (Also, the DUP isn’t just loathed by the hard left, they’re loathed by the centre left as well, and the centre for that matter.)

Ian

It’s what John McDonnell calls himself – just saying

Cameron Rose

Its not though, he said there was a lot to be learnt from reading Das Kapital, just because you think theres something to be learnt from a text doesn’t automatically mean you 100% agree with everything in it.

Ian

You may want to take those rose coloured spectacles off. As I say to my kids ‘I’ll take your apology in writing’ 😉

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/john-mcdonnell-video-labour-marxist-economic-crash-jeremy-corbyn-a7309651.html

Peace x

Cameron Rose

Fair enough, however, ignoring the fact that he said he was joking (mostly because I’m not sure that I believe him) 1 person does not make a “clique.” To be honest my problem isn’t really with that specific part of the article, but with the general anti-labour mood of many of these pieces on what is a supposedly an apolitical site, I’m fine with unbiased analysis suggesting that a party may not be good for the navy, but recently this site is making it sound like Corbyns about to lead an army of Irish communists to take the country by force.
(Although I do wonder, why are those interested in defence typically more right wing than those that aren’t?)

Ian

The clique is real enough, so are their defence views & that’s why it’s being reported. If you support a side then genuine criticism is seen as taking sides. It’s called holding politicians to account. You will see just as much ire directed at Tories for defence cuts.

Kieran

“Labour/SNP minority coalition government could be waiting in the wings which would, of course, be very bad news for the RN”

Could you elaborate on that please? it’s quite a statement with no evidence chucked in.

Ian

Hi Kierran,

There are some great Labour MP’s but Labour top front bench simply do not believe in the armed forces; Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbot & Thornberry.

So Nia (who I like), some of the great new Labour MPs and the Manifesto can say what they want, people who don’t have party political spectacles on simply don’t believe they will be able to influence that cabal – me included

Kieran

I am sorry Ian but I just don’t buy it, you’re swallowing up the MSM narrative of Corbyn being bad for defence because of his views on nuclear weapons. And your first sentence is a bare face lie with no evidence, if anything it’s an opinion and a poor one at that.

What people are failing to take into account is that the Royal Navy are not just ships to wage war with, just like the RAF is not just used to drop bombs.

Humanitarian aid, disaster relief, anti piracy, drug smuggling, that’s the things they do most! Then why arnt people putting 2 and 2 together and thinking “oh hang on a minute, that’s sounds like stuff Jeremy Corbyn would be massively in favour of doing”

http://www.forces.net/news/corbyn-military-needs-more-ships-aircraft-funding-personnel

That’s a link for Jeremy Corbyn saying he would invest in our armed forces.

Case closed.

Ian

My point is political but not party political Kieran I think Tories are scam artists talking like they care but denying our military vital resources so I’m not sticking up for them either.

However, I am a little older than you. Old enough to not blindly follow anyone or anything be they cults or c***s. I don’t give a **** what the MSM say. I know Mr Corbyn of old.

This clip below from the Messiah himself is but one tiny sliver of evidence from a shed full of it.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/heres-what-jeremy-corbyn-really-6438877

Now, I actually really respect that he wants a peaceful world with no army, it is admirable. But I want a peaceful world too. It’s just that we have fundamentally different views on what makes that happen. Not having an imbalance of power stops war, not makes it.

So, from my perspective the case is far from closed, whatever straight jacket some of his colleagues have put him in to try and sound credible on defence.

The country desperately needs a credible opposition on defence and I’m hopeful that some of the excellent new intake of MPs who actually know about this stuff will figure a way to make the party serious in the minds of many voters again.

Kieran

Are you for real, not only do you make absolute no sense in what you say, but you have the cheek to patronise me about my age.

I’m 30 with a wife and two daughters, I know exactly who I follow and what I believe in, I don’t blindly follow anyone you fool.

In one paragraph you say you hate the tories, or respect Corbyn, then you patronise him by calling him messiah, or he’s in straight jacket. You’re making a fool of yourself trying to be impartial but failing miserably.

“I know the Corbyn of old”

Yeah you sent a video from 2012, and the article is actually explaining that if you take into account the context in what he was saying, he never said he wants to “scrap the army” which was the Daily Mail headline.

So your fundamental disagreement is this, you think if between 2 countries, one has a more powerful army than the other, that is more safer than if neither of the counties had an army at all.

Deary me.

Ian

Those ‘who believe’ think everyone who has legitimate criticism or concern must be on the other side.

It’s perfectly possible to be on neither and think both are selling snake oil.

Evan

There isn’t anything to say a Labour government would be any worse for the RN than a Tory one. After all, it’s the Tories who want to cut everything into oblivion. Ian, I do not think you political stand point had a place in this article. I feel like I’ve just had a look at the Daily Mirror. Please keep to the subject in hand in future, because apparently, people don’t like it when journalism gets bitchy.

Kieran

“It is difficult to predict how damaging a Corbyn government could be”

Is that because it might actually not be damaging at all?

Ray

For an organisation that claims to be unaligned to any political party, comments such as “a Labour/SNP minority coalition government could be waiting in the wings which would, of course, be very bad news for the RN” seem somewhat out of place. Why would SNP influence be negative when they are a voice in the wilderness when it comes to getting more fishery protection and patrol vessels in the water?