The FT reports that First Sea Lord, Admiral Sir Ben Key, has stepped down as head of the RN. He had previously told the Defence Secretary last year that he would be leaving his post this summer. Vice Admiral Martin Connel has taken command until the permanent successor is announced within the next few weeks.
UPDATE: on 9th May the Sun reported that Key had, in fact, been suspended after having an affair with a female subordinate and is being investigated for misconduct. As a respected and popular officer this is especially surprising. In 2022 he announced the RN would have “zero tolerance” for sexual exploitation following a series of scandals in the submarine service and would, “regardless of rank or status, remove this abhorrent behaviour from anywhere within the Royal Navy”.
The MoD say that Key’s departure is not a protest or sign of despair about the much-delayed Strategic Defence Review or failure to commit to adequate defence spending. Previous media speculation suggested Key had not applied for the Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) job as he saw the task as being too difficult due to the lack of political support for defence. His resignation for personal reasons now puts this rumour into context.
The Admiral has served for 41 years in the navy and certainly done his duty. Key’s tenure as 1SL since November 2021 has not been easy, the RN has declined in strength over the last 4 years by almost any measure. There is no doubt that many underlying problems that date back to bad decisions taken more than a decade previously, have really come to a head during his time in charge.
Unconfirmed reports say that General Sir Gwyn Jenkins, is the most likely candidate to succeed Admiral Key, becoming the first Royal Marine to hold the post. Other potential candidates are Vice Admiral Martin Connell, Vice Admiral Andrew Burns or Lt Gen Rob Magowan.
Without meaning to question his skillset (which I am sure is excellent as a Marine General) it is difficult to see how a Marine General with no sea going command experience might be the best choice as professional head of the RN.
Could be how our armed forces see the future?
Seems they think counter terrorism is a big issue. I heard our police and other agency’s are concerned if a war starts with Pakistan and India, and UK having a lot of diaspora from both country’s in our country.
Stehen
Bearing in mind you posted your comment (above) yesterday afternoon, so well before:
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Note 1. The S word is spelt with a “ph” – and not a “v” – in the middle
These days when a big operation happens, look for a big switch, the trade deal stuff sealed it.
That and special forces being involved with this Iran terrorism.
Ben Key as an Admiral with sea going experience, was in charge of the evacuation of Kabul!
Until Boris et al mucked it up.
Stupid qoute. The destruction of the Royal Navy happened when Artificers were given redundancy and then no longer recruited. This was long before Boris. The Armed forces especially RN np longer have experienced engineers.
As an ex Tiffy I cannot agree more. The throw away and not repair society just benefits the manufacturers and costs the navy a fortune. Too late to bring the skills back I’m afraid.
I agree.
There was an issue about how that was handled.
One of the last bad moves of the Labour government before Cameron came in and made even more.
Your dates are mixed up. It was from 2011 not before the election
“To implement the changes announced in the Strategic Defence and Security Review, the Naval Service is reducing in size by approximately 5,000 people
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/royal-navy-redundancies
Hi Duker, the tiffs role was culled before then, the training program shut down in Feb 2010.
Shut down the ‘artificer’ role and changed to the engineering technician role with a different type of training.
It gives them skills and job names that translate to the civilian world. Artificer is meaningless to most employers who look at job titles.
NVQs ( vocational quals) attained as part of the training equate to those in real world.
This would have been something the RN wanted not the Government ( artificer school was begin by Jackie Fisher in 1904!)
Mass redundancies were an edict from the pollies.
The 12th Feb 2010 to be precise. That was the passing out parade of the last ever tiffies.
Exactly this
Replaced by Engineering technicians who have specialist training like they are in civilian world
Absolute crap. Technology evolved away from valves and surface mount resistors that could be soldered in an RMO.
There is zero chance of training an engineer to repair a multi-layer circuit board or network switch component at sea. Nobody in industry does this either.
Engineering has evolved, the people coming through now are highly capable and your comment does them a huge disservice.
Whilst what you are saying is all true and with the passing of T22 and the Invincibles the last of the ships with electronics that could be fixed at sea with a soldering iron and burn fingers passed into history.
Perhaps this tells you something about the quality of those coming through to that level within the Navy or that the role is a poison chalice.
Maybe not but he would make an excellent CDS.
He has more experience than most shore-based admirals.
None of the current Vadams are suitable. Many too old and hold important posts.
All senior staff officers need the same skill sets, work together, cover the same strategic areas. There is a lot less siloing than you think. They leave behind their earlier career specialisations and learn how to manage the greater endeavour.
Times change, and the RN now needs a CEO, not a ship CO. A command qualified and experienced marine will do just as well as an admiral. Adm Key was my old CO, a true gentlemen. I wish him the best.
Gen Jenkins was previously Vice Chief of the Naval Staff so I am sure that any deficiencies in his skills or outlook for a modern progressive Royal Navy will have been revealed then, I think having a 1SL as tough, smart and skilled as Gen Jenkins will be a great benefit to the wider naval service and the RN specifically.
The SDR must be changing a lot, or they are unsure how to proceed from point B to C due to costs?
Don’t think a war will happen with China due to China food supply issues. In 30-40 years maybe because China population will be mush lower.
Seems the powers in charge are after Iran and its proxy ally’s, Pakistan seems more of a hot bed of terrorism.
Add to that migration is out of control in our western country’s, nobody seems to be in control apart from USA but will Europe follow as hard?
Strong disagree from me on the migration front.
As to having an RM 1SL? Why not? Assuming they can take technical advice from suitably experienced underlings the fact that the bootnecks ‘equip the man’ and the mob ‘mans the equipment’ should not be an unsurmountable cultural challenge.
No, you don’t need lots of people.
Now if your culture, Media and Universities ( and not only “both of them”) turned almost everyone an aristocrat that can only work with papers be it in a QUANGO, NGO or entity, commission, supervision, regulation , managing, finance increasing several fold your country entropy you certainly need a lot more people to answer to the crazy ideas all that people do to justify their jobs and also those “simple” despised jobs that are useful to other people.
100% correct
Guess you voted liebour then.
Gosh, how clever of you to misspell Labour as Liebour. I wonder how many others are astonished with your mastery of the English language. See you next Tuesday
I don’t think we need “lots of people” especially from the 3rd world where most people coming in are military aged males with no education, no skills in an AI high tech world. Filling the country with people who subscribe to 12th century values and morals is destroying the country. Perhaps that is what you want?
Some countries and cultures are better than others FACT.
You need to check a few figures before repeating right wing propaganda
I’m not right-wing, I’m a centrist.
Reform is not centrist. Fascists are not centrists.
Quite right! Fascists are Left wingers.
Poor attempt at trolling 🤣
• the SDR is completed unrelated to Ben’s departure
• “in our western country’s” is syntactically incorrect as any native English speaker will tell you, not to mention just the clumsy tautology.
Migration is out of control, The UK population has repeatedly voted for less, instead the numbers have been increasing.
My compatriate, Mr Garage, (You know he’s a German citizen too?) rants a lot about migration, yet he fails to repatriate himself and keeps bringing in migrants to the UK do the unpopular job of being his wife.
This is a defence thread so I do not think we need must discuss your political view on this, no?
You right it is a defence thread, Many undocumented ppl are entering the UK illegally, The Royal Navy said it wont help after helping 1 person who then turned out to be a terrorist.
What the hell has the Royal Navy rescuing a Manchester born British citizen (who later became a terrorist) have to do with illegal entry to the UK??
Like most extreme-right trolls, your knowledge of actual facts is hilariously poor.
I’m a centrist, you seem like a radical extreme left wing troll.
Stop your hysterical panicking, clearly you’re no Englishman with such a response.
Migration is ‘not of control’, if you think that’s the case you should visit a country that has a land-border with a war zone, where they have tens of thousands crossing daily.
Illegal immigration is a serious problem, the vast majority being people overstaying visas. Those entering illegally are a small fraction by comparison.
Claims of asylum have also expanded way beyond what they were originally intended for. Instead of people fleeing Nazi Germany or Communist USSR, we now give asylum to people who think they might suffer in some way from some undefinable group in their home country for some esoteric reason.
Integration of lawful migrants isn’t where it should be either. The foundation of any culture is its language, and all migrants should be required to attain a decent level of English/ Welsh/ or Gaelic depending where in the UK they live. Otherwise assimilation is impossible.
So yes, lots of problems, and a certain amount of exasperation. But ‘out of control’? Don’t be so whiney.
Sean
TLDNR
Peter (Irate Txapayer)
Well played.
Who are you to say who is an Englishman and who isn’t? People are allowed their opinions you fkn clown. If people don’t want mass immigration and the erasing of their own culture, they are allowed to state their opinion and express their own vision for the future – which is just as worthy as any woke vision for destroying Britain and its unique culture. Bloody woke clown.
By design. The great replacement IS REAL. Prove me wrong: What would be the value to Britain of mass importing people from the Islamic 3rd world who have no education, don’t speak the language, bringing no skills to the workforce in a modern 21st century European country? Different values, different morales and different culture altogether. Square peg round hole. The question is why and who is forcing this peg? What’s the end state, the vision, in 20 years? Why is this being forced upon British indigenous people? That’s your question.
Rob
You have, quite obviously, been walking around central London recently…..
………and feeling like you are the minority of one…
These were the official ONS figures from the 2021 census, published in 2022
International migration, England and Wales – Office for National Statistics
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Toad in the hole.
Sir Ben’s packed up his telescope and taken the long walk ashore. “Personal reasons,” they say — which in MoD-speak usually means either a silent scream or a miraculous escape.
No drama, no protest, no top-floor tantrum — just a quiet exit after 41 years and one hell of a watch. The ship may have been taking on water, but he kept smiling and waving, even as the lifeboats shrank.
Connell’s got the helm for now, while the real prize might go to a bootneck — imagine the brass when the new 1SL salutes with mud on his boots and no clue which fork to use.
From a wistful old Dukey hand: he’s gone, the Navy’s still here (just), and we’ll keep steaming on — preferably in a straight line this time.
That’s also used when there are either personal or family issues, such as health related.
Here’s to hoping he enjoys a long and happy retirement after all his years of service.
Yes. Hes already served longer than any 1SL since Mark Stanhope in 2009.
Stanhope was my old CO on Lusty back in 98/99, great CO and did a pretty decent job as 1SL despite all the usual useless politicians / political carp.
He had to bear with Boris antics during the fall of Kabul. His fleet has shrunk.
Jenkins was SBS more than mud.
An absolute Gentleman my old DO from way back when he wasa Lt. Wish him a long and relaxing retirement.
For what its worth ive never met a duff RM Officer….thought id met one once who was an ex C SGT but was proved wrong ….im all for it ….we have had a couple of 1SL in my opinion have been
Lacklustre
Junglierating
Great minds think alike……
I pointed out few months back that the RMC have recently taken over the two elite units in two of the other branches of the UK armed services:
So, make it a hatrick = why not a Bootneck heading up the RN?
As you quite rightly say above – these days there seem to be no duff RMC officers…..
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
PS
and please god ensure that he does not get appointed to the ADC (Army Dress Committee)
Yadda.
It’s really clear from the sale of the amphibs that real capability cuts are continuing as even at 2.5% GDP, we aren’t allocating adequate resources to sustain current capability, let alone grow.
Additionally our procurement methodology remains expensive, inefficient and incapable, whikst problems persist in recruitment and some areas of training. The SDR looks like more cuts, rather than a genuine review of threats and needs.
How much of the extra 0.2% of
GDP do you think will go to
ARMY/NAVY/AIRFORCE?…
ANSWER: NOT A LOT!!
It’s politically simple,get rid of capabilities now,and it makes SDR look better when it finally comes out!
For the anti-RM folks, here’s your Vice Admiral choices.
Martin Connell – 2SL Likely but if you promote him, who will replace him?
Andrew Burns – Fleet Commander. Unlikely due to age, though may be.Adviser
Mike Utley – Commander Marcom – experinced though like Connell will need successor.
Phil Hally – Chief Defence People No.
Andy Kyte – Chief Defence Logistics and Support No
Simon Asquith COS NATO Allied Transformation Likely Submariner though failed to get boats to sea
Ed Ahlgren Senior Adiviser Middle East Likely Submariner
Jim Morley DCOM JFC Norfolk Too old
*experienced
The RN had been crying out for a Bootneck 2SL for an age. Now I don’t think it matters.
Not my point.
Served under this man a couple of times in my career. Absolute gentleman and first class skipper. Whatever the reason for his resignation Have a wonderful retirement Sir
Ex CPO Smudge Smith
Yeah, decent man, good heart, I hope he has a long and happy retirement.
The Problem with the Navy is that it Promotes “Yes men” rather than people who can do the job.
There have been issues and problems all over with gaps in manpower, equipment and training but the hierarchy like to prove the RN can fight through it so they cover the gaps, make sure it works by increasing work load and then the fat-cats at the top see it being managed, and make cuts again.
its a vicious circle if short term vision by people in power to improve their own career rather than looking at the future of the RN.
Anthony
👍👍👍👍👍
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Anthony
Promoting “Yes men” in high rank levels of navies and armies is a worldwide sport.
I only know the general De Villier who said “No” to Macron just elected president, about defence cuts, and was therefore fired (asked to dismiss).
Rat catchers or regulators as identified post Battle of Jutland. Rat catchers succeed in a crisis – regulators succeed in a bureaucracy. We need rat catchers.
Admiral Key will be the next in a long line of ex military that speak the truth once they’ve jumped ship.
Give it 6 months and he’ll have a book out, a newspaper column or a TV interview where he is telling anyone that will listen about the terrible state the RN is in and he can’t see how it will survive in the future…..But, he never said a bad word about it when he was the head and he had the power to make changes to the list of problems he knows about.
I hope not but will not be holding my breath.
Don’t worry, he isn’t related to Alan self-effacing-rent-quote West….
Supportive Bloke
I assume you are referring here to a former RN captain, one whom had his ship sunk in 1982…
…and whom, much later on……,
………….very soon after his promotion into the very highest echelons of the gold braided department in the long corridors of power….
…this, of course, being at the very same time as the RN’s fleet numbers, manpower and budget etc etc was being very-regularly slashed to ribbons
You might very well think that: I couldn’t possibly comment!!
Supportive Bloke
Putting your phrase into my google translate function…..
Gives me this answer:
“yes”
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
PS last night’s repeat of BBC 2’s Yes Minister programme, first broadcast in 1982, was all about the UK getting an intergrated transport system
…. funnily enough….. I seem to have heard that phrase again recently…
You mean the great Francis Urquart [FU] of the origional House of Cards…..?
Supportive Bloke
I am genuinely really surprised that a man as well travelled and as knowledgeable as yourself does not know the origins of the phrase:
So….
Let me explain…
……..back in the mid 1980’s, a publisher tried to publish the book “Spycatcher”: the first ever public recollections of a spy. It was written by a former long-serving MI5 officer, peter Wright
Our governmemt (i.e. Mrs T) then tried to ban the book.
This ban was attempted on the (dubious) legal grounds that no former MI5 officer should ever reveal any details of what an MI5 officer ever did at work……up to and including describing what he (or she) picked up from the menu in the MI5 canteen on a Friday lunchtime (note 1).
….so the government’s official view in the 1980’s was that everything about MI5 and MI6 anf GCHQ must always remain officially very top secret…..probably on the grounds that……
So, in an attempt to have the government’s ban on their new book lifted: the publisher then sued the government, and took them to court
So next, when the UK’s most senior civil servant, Sir Robert Armstrong was being cross-examined by the publisher’s QC in the High Court..
So, in an attempt to avoiding giving the correct answer – so the very obvious three letter word – inside a court of law (i.e. the word “YES”)
….. as an alternative, Sir Robert then used the phrase:
This link explains in more detail the origins of this phrase in modern useage
Economical With The Truth – Meaning & Origin Of The Phrase
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Note 1.
Note 2.
I’m well aware of Robert Armstrong’s attempted circumlocutions!
I was referring to my origional comment
“You might very well think that but I could not possibly comment !” Or variations thereon!
Supportive Bloke
As I said earlier…… you are very knowledgeable fella….
and I will now admit that I had to look up the meaning of the big word:
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
For those of you reading Navy Lookout who are wondering what it means…. ..I will give you a clue……..It is nothing whatsover to do with:
I think you might be confusing a barmitzvah (13 years old) with a bris (8 days old). With Muslims there’s no religiously mandated age and it falls to local tradition. I hope that wasn’t too circumlocutory for you.
“I assume you are referring here to a former RN captain, one whom had his ship sunk in 1982…”
Mountbatten also had his ship sunk
I assume you are referring here to a former RN captain, one whom had his ship sunk in 1982…
Ardent was sacrificed to save ships in the San Carlos anchorage.
It wasn’t due to West’s poor leadership.
What a nasty ignorant thing to say.
Gawd! I have just defended West in public……..
WIZ
I made no commennt whatsoever about AW’s leadership of his ship, and his ship’s company etc, during that very intense war of 1982.
———————-
However….
….in my orginal post I think that I had made it 120% obvious that I was only commenting on Sir AW’s “leadership” of the entire fleet – and in particular his “relationships” with central government – during the long period of time (i.e. very much later duriing his long career)
i.e. when he was wearing the gold braid aland walking about inside the corridors of power in Whitehall
And so it was definitely only his last job which I was judging him on…..
.. as indeed had the editor = with the comment made in the orginal article..
..
—————————.
So, as many others have said before me; often in a very different context:
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Gwyn Jenkins would be perfect for the role. Also, we should really have seen Gordon Messenger as CDS but the Corps has never really been favoured at political level, maybe too fond of telling the truth.
He clearly resigned after seeing his service sold and scrapped and left in a worse state than the Italian Navy. Like Sanders he leaves with his head held high. Integrity still exists.
Another position lined up? Hes already served longer than all 1SL since 20 year ago.
That didn’t age well …
Seems he’s disgusted with the apathy of 14 plus years of ‘NO SUPPORT’ from inept government.
Wake up Britain. We’re at the late 1936 timezone. Time to re-arm and be damned serious about it.
Not going to happen. Britain is finished. The left wing supremacist, woke revolution is winning.
I thought we had just finished 14yrs of right wing rule which has created the problem?
After 10mths of Labour government, can’t you see Labour and Tory Governments are and always will be broadly the same!
Ask the ordinary people…
Major,Blair,Cameron, Stamer!
How different?
Conservatives which do not conserve anything are right wing?
Incorrect use of word “professional” in the headline. It means someone who gets paid to do a job. Simples.
My concern is that the RN is too small and has lost too many experienced officers and men. We have arrived at a point where no matter how much cash is thrown at Defence it will still take several decades or a hot war to generate the skills necessary to operate an effective blue water navy. Building / buying hardware is easy – gaining the experience to use it effectively is much, much harder
Ian
I sought of “half agree” with you…..
However in my own mind, to arrest and then recover this long and slow and steady downhill decline of the RN fleet..
…what the government and the Royal Navy now needs to do (and very urgently) is to commit NOW to buying the modern hardware: especially ordering several more new escorts (note 1)
This is being suggested because they is nothing more demoralising – especially for the engineering teams and the “lower decks” – to be serving on and cleaning and maintaining knackered old ships and submarines that are already falling (or have already fallen…..) to pieces.
Furthermore, refitting old ships – and especially submarines – that are already very near to the end of their natural lives is just very expensive bad practice. It is ultimately very counterproductive. It is just throwing bucketloads of scarce cash into a bottomless pit.
Sorting out the Navy’s very decript shoreside infrastructure is now “must do” – especially for the submarine service – and that will then, in turn, also dramatically help to improve productivity and increase capabilitities = and that then, in turn, will help to get ships (and sailors) out to sea more often.
Then everybody – both serving matelots and especially potential recruits – will see that high-level commitment to buying the right kit and also sorting out the infrastruture is actually happening
= and that boost to morale will, in turn – alibet a bit slowly at first – will then definitely start to ease the current recruitment and retention “crisis”
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Note 1.
Intended here to mean the Type T26 and T31 models: so not the “call girl model” types….
I share your worry,we may well land up with a lot of equipment and no one to run them, What’s the betting
Somewhere along the way we SELL a large no of these Frigates/Destroyers to S American countries for next to nothing,..
HM TREASURY consider MOD MANPOWER the biggest waste of money! Will be interesting to see what SDR has to say on the subject if anything….
“MoD say that Key’s departure is not a protest or sign of despair about the much-delayed Strategic Defence Review or failure to commit to adequate defence spending”
Hmmmmmmm
Never easy there. SNAFU has deteriorated I’m certain through no fault of the people involved.
There needs to be public reality. No bs. Call it a rebaseline or whatever, then a decade of calm. No bs just normal business. We’ve been doing it long enough.
https://news.sky.com/story/head-of-royal-navy-steps-back-after-investigation-into-alleged-relationship-with-female-colleague-13364782
Until something is done about the MOD – perhaps if not too late, by a future Reform govt – our entire Armed Forces seem doomed.
If a Reform govt is ever in it will do whatever the Kremlin tells it too.
Ha, they would want ships to deploy to the Channel. Was once their X post.
What a disgrace and a hypocrite. Eradicating this sort of behaviour and misconduct in the Navy was his agenda, now it seems it was all a LIE. Nil integrity!
Have you heard of Glenn Haughton who also broke his no sexual relationship rant?
Breaking https://news.sky.com/story/head-of-royal-navy-steps-back-after-investigation-into-alleged-relationship-with-female-colleague-13364782 he broke his rule.
Jason
This is not the type of publicity that the Navy ever wants, or indeed it ever needs….
even at a time of peace – and especially not during the run-in to a strategic defence review
This news story has even managed to overshadow the news about the three big shooting matches which are currently underway in the world……..and I am not talking about the just announced cancellation of the international cricket test match series:
Now please remember that it is Chinese made fighter jets of the (always very good) Paki airforce which have just shot down about half a dozen Indian AF jets – by using very long range BVR AAM’s made in China (note: BVR missiles with an effective range well beyond anything which NATO currently has in service)
So, what happens next?
and this news is why this Navy Lookout website used to be called “Save the Royal Navy”
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Note 1. And these two huge nuclear armed countries have fought several hot wars in the recent past. They have also come close to the edge on several other recent occasions.
Note 2. This pun – about the 1SL “lying (note 3) down on the job” – was definitely intended.
Note 3. This further pun – about him not following his own strict rules – was also intended.
You watch the BBC and Sky News a lot don’t you?
I share your frustration with
‘BBC NEWS’ and other news organisations based in Britain,(but not particularly pro- British)
If you give these people this type of story, you now what’s going to happen! THEY are ultimately what we old fashion people called Gutter Press! ‘BBC NEWS’ ceased to be a proper news organisation 30yrs+ ago, Proper journalism does not exist there anymore! I suspect it ran up against one of their WOKE policies! And many diverse committees…
Peter
I remember Monty was very “iritate” because Ike was having a love affair with her/his (I’m lost…) female driver.
But he performed well on DDay!
Little Froggy
Good point…..and I would add Eisenhower did exactly the same with his “driver”
Peter (Irate Txapayer)
👍
Irate, it’s on Sky, BBC, Guardian social media. As said, there was the Glenn Haughton ‘case’.
Yes, saw this morning. Seems everybody got it wrong, with speculation. Including me.
I read many in US navy are also getting removed. Could be same reason. Misconduct in office.
Oh Dear been raising his flag up the wrong Flagpole. and you are not supposed to question a man of that rank. what a ranker
So many jokes come to mind about Admirals and their seamen!
But on a more serious note I agree this is not a good look for him or his family!
I would like to point out that had this happened to a Cabinet Minister or Even Priminister In this day,I dare say little would be said,probably because it was against his human rights!
I Would agree, and he is not the 1st or be the Last senior ranking officer in any of the Services. to get caught raising his flag on the wrong Hill.
But you supposed to follow these people without question, yet he is lying to himself and his family. no bigger traitor to his own family.
There was nothing apart from his cowardice from doing the right thing as he never thought he would get caught….
What about MAJOR,CLINTON, PRESCOTT,ASHDOWN. Just a few examples (And who knows who in the current cabinet)
Let he that HATH NO SIN throw the first stone!
Nige
You forgot to mention:
That is why “his” battlecruiser squadron did not do any of their vital gunnery or even more importantly – signalling practice during early 1916.
His inattention to “trival detail” therefore soon got several RN ships sunk; many matelots killed in action; and – it could quite easily be argued – nearly lost us WW1 (in an afternoon).
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
We forgot one very important name in our list of exofficers,
One HRH KING CHARLES III
No longer an HRH, if you please.