To mark the 60th Anniversary of Singapore’s independence from Malaysia and Britain, the Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN) sent the frigate RSS Formidable to London. We visited this impressive vessel and here we consider the ship and the naval links between the two nations.
Context
Singapore is a small but thriving nation, having the 4th highest GDP per capita in the world and its Navy is a reflection of this. With a population of around just 6 million, this city-state manages to field six Formidable-class frigates, six submarines as well as a variety of corvettes, patrol vessels and amphibious ships.
As a small island state with no natural resources, Singapore is completely reliant on the sea as well as being situated close to the strategically vital Strait of Malacca and the Singapore Strait, the busiest and most important maritime choke points in the world. Singapore is also surrounded by other nations that are increasingly growing their naval power, so continues to invest heavily in a modern and balanced fleet.
Singapore tries to remain neutral, balancing close economic ties with Beijing with concern over China’s rampant military growth and excessive territorial claims in the South China Sea. Singapore is not party to any military alliances, although is part of the Five-Power Defence Agreement (FPDA) with the UK, Malaysia, Australia and New Zealand. This is a loose defence cooperation framework that commits member countries to consult each other in the event of an armed attack on Malaysia or Singapore.
The RSN does not frequently send warships on long out-of-area deployments, although it has this capability and participates in the regular RIMPAC and Pacific Griffin exercises. It predominantly patrols its nearby waters and is engaged in anti-piracy, anti-smuggling, counter terrorism and the broader mission to guarantee the security of vital sea lines of communication.
In 1938, the RN completed construction of the Sembawang dockyard in the north of Singapore, one of the largest naval bases in the world at that time. Following the end of British rule, most of the area was turned over to commercial use and the RN’s presence in the region declined rapidly from the 1960s to almost nothing by the early 2000s. The British Defence Singapore Support Unit (BDSSU) at Sembawang was re-established in 2018 as part of the UK’s ‘Pacific tilt’ and provides logistic and maintenance support to the OPV’s HMS Tamar and HMS Spey operating in the Indo-Pacific. Singapore does not offer full military basing rights but this is an ‘access agreement’, an important political distinction.
The RN provides some training support to the RSN. A few Singaporean officer cadets are sent to train at BRNC Dartmouth as well as trainees attending the International Principal Warfare Officer (IPWO) course run at HMS Collingwood. The RSN also benefits from experience shared by the RN’s Fleet Operational Standards and Training (FOST) organisation.
Formidable
RSS Formidable is the lead ship of six frigates and is a heavily modified and up-armed variant of the French Lafayette class. The Lafayette class frigates (FLF) were a pioneer of extreme warship stealth technology and their austere, clean-sided design influenced many subsequent warship designs since they entered service in the mid-1990s. The Formidable, launched in 2004, was built by DCNS (now Naval Group) in France but the rest of the class were built locally at the Benoi shipyard, with French assistance provided to Singapore Technologies Marine (ST Marine) which continues to maintain the ships.
Despite being more than 20 years old, these ships have a well-balanced armament and are a fine example of a general-purpose frigate design that remains highly effective. A mid-life upgrade programme was announced for the class in 2023, details of which are largely confidential but will include electrical, power generation, combat system and communications improvements. Similar to the Support Information Knowledge Management (S-IKM), used by the RN, the ships will also be fitted with a data analytics-based fleet management system to support maintenance tasks. As part of the MLU programme, which will conclude by 2028, the Harpoon AShMs are also to be replaced by the longer-range Proteus Blue Spear missile being developed jointly between IAI and ST Engineering Singapore.
The Formidable-class are fitted with 32 Sylver VLS cells and carries the Aster-15 missile (in common with the RN, although the RN is moving towards standardising on the longer range Aster-30 only). This provides medium and short-range air defence capability, cued by the Thales Herakles phased array PESA 3D search and fire control radar. In addition, the ship could be armed with up to 24 Harpoon heavyweight anti-ship missiles and carries a 76mm Oto Super Rapid gun. Two Rafael ADS 25mm Typhoon cannons mounted on each side of the hangar can be remotely operated from consoles on the bridge or operations room.
ASW capabilities are also well-rounded, with an EDO/L3Harris Model 980 active low-frequency towed sonar (ALOFTS) that can be streamed from doors in the transom. Two triple torpedo tubes for EuroTorp A244/S Mod 3 lightweight torpedoes are fitted behind doors on either side of the vessel amidships. The flight deck and hangar can accomodate a Republic of Singapore Air Force Sikorsky S-70B Seahawk helicopter, supported by a detachment of about 20 extra personnel when embarked.
Formidable is propelled by a relatively straightforward combined diesel and diesel (CODAD) arrangement, comprising four MTU 20V 8000 diesel engines directly driving two fixed pitch propellers. This reduces cost and simplifies operation, while some efforts have been made to reduce the acoustic signature of the diesels.
What is most striking about the Formidable is the exceptionally small crew. As a well-equipped frigate of 3,200 tonnes, the crew of just 71 sailors have multiple responsibilities and works very hard. In comparison, the more lightly armed French Lafayette-class frigates have a complement of 164. When on board, it was notable the immaculate condition of the 20-year-old vessel, a testament to the dedication of the ship’s company. There is a single galley serving both officers and men who eat together in a small shared dining hall, although they have separate messes and lounges.
Aster test
Before coming to London, in early April, the RSS Formidable arrived off Toulon, France, to test-fire an Aster missile and validate the ship’s air defence capabilities in a complex maritime environment. The French Direction Générale de l’Armement (DGA) provided the range facilities used to test the ship’s ability to detect, track and engage a variety of threats, including uncrewed air vehicles. Chief of the RSN, Rr Adm Sean Wat, and Fleet Commander, Rr Adm Kwan Hon Chuong, were onboard to witness the successful test. Ironically, RSS Formidable will not be involved in the large-scale biennial missile defence exercise Formidable Shield 2025 that is underway off Scotland and in the Norwegian Sea at the time of writing, as this is a NATO event.
The RSN can be seen as a small but highly effective navy that, despite funding and personnel limitations, has maximised its potential in a way that many Western navies could learn from.
It is a good example, it just needs another gun above the hangar and an AESA radar.
Side note: i bet that Singapore don’t have to put “best in the world” like UK does in everything to justify spending in the military.
It’s just a general purpose ship, to have the equipment they have is impressive does it really need more
Quite agree
Cool looking ship, the forward boat bay is still puzzling to me.
Why? Can’t really fit it anywhere else due to midships weapon/missile bay and the uptakes / downtakes looked to be trunked via the sides so no space there. Either side of the hanger will likely be taken up with air weapons and aircraft maintenance / spares so up for’ad makes sense.
Seem to remember when I was speaking with some of their EW guys that the Bridge is a combined Bridge / Ops Room as well. That would be a bit weird for me (having spent 20+ years in a darkened / red lighted room), having windows in the Ops Room.
Guess I’m just used to the t45 and renders of the t26 keeping their boat bays right next to the hanger.
you have just a one track mind
So much to, do so little time, not a man for compromise and wheres and whys and little lies
Good navy the Singaporeans. Operated with them in 06 when I was on Westminster, very professional with some very good kit. They can punch above their weight very well.
It’s almost like an Ancient Greek island state, isn’t it?
A very small country that still manages to put together a navy and protect its interests, with a very motivated and hardworking crew.
Defo mate, and very nice people as well. Sailors are very professional.
The RSS Formidable sailed into London like the smug guest at a reunion: sharp suit, perfect teeth, not a speck of rust, and everyone whispering, “Has she had work done?” Twenty years old and still gleaming — must be something in the water over there. Or fewer Defence Committee hearings.
With just 71 crew running a fully tooled-up warship, the Singaporeans are either hiding a few stowaways or have developed a terrifyingly efficient kind of sailor. Probably chipless, sweatless and immune to Jack Speak. Makes you wonder what the mess deck chat’s like: fewer dits, more diagnostics.
The ship’s armed to the teeth — Asters, Harpoons (with Proteus incoming), a Seahawk, and a towed array. Meanwhile, we’ve got OPVs playing tag in the Channel with outboards that cost more than their main armament. Singapore doesn’t do “fitted for but not with” — they just fit, and they get on with it.
They’ve even got a galley that serves everyone, regardless of rank. Officers and ratings dining side by side, presumably over Michelin-starred nasi lemak, while the rest of us argue about whose turn it is to clean the toastie machine.
Credit where it’s due — the RSN runs a tight ship, looks good doing it, and manages to be both polite and prepared. If this is what punching above your weight looks like, we may need to drop a few pounds and take notes.
Mousekid
It’s a dream for every Navy!
This reminds me an old article here, of a young RN Officer trying to estimate the correct 😏 size of the RN.
Now we know the perfect ratio: 1 frigate/1 million inhabitants
So we need 60-70 frigates…..basically USN sized…..:)
The RN had 70 frigates in 1970……….
Minus 2 QE carriers. How many frigates = 1 carrier?
I’m not sure that equation holds any analysis when RN fleet is so imbalanced until T26/31 comes on stream.
And how many ships in total then? FBNW?
The 6 Formidable-class has 144 SSM in total, more than any T26/T31 combined
Keep on dreaming
Different surface warfare situation in South China Sea with large numbers of smaller naval vessels ( corvettes and FAC) and coastguard/maritime militia ships.
Not the same numbers of opposing surface vessels in Atlantic/Arctic/Mediterranean is it ?
Then, stay in the safe waters and do not ever go to the South China Sea, where you are outgunned
How many crew do the RSN’s ships require?
Surely that’s the best way of accounting for different ship types in the strength of a Navy.
frigate / GDP per capita ratio
Simon
What are the results?
Little Froggy
You text should have read
“young, inexperenced and very naive” and then included “without combat experience”
😉
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
PS editor:
As Little Froogy has just raised the issue, I now have to ask….
Was that now famous article – i.e. the one written by the UK’s leading expert in Greek Trireme Tactics – the only one that has ever been withdrawn from Navy Lookout by its own author?
What, the 4 carrier, 50 escort article?
Still my second favourite article ever posted on this site. I can’t believe they got rid of it, no matter how controversial it was.
Articles and comments get deleted all the time on these sites. So do Posters.
It was the author not the article that was the problem
At 3,200 tonnes it’s half the displacement of the type 26. This has to help with cost and so ship numbers. Small ships of this size might become more viable. I visited the ship in London and the harpoon space took up alot of deck space. With everything brleing mk 41 packed you could just put that in the silos now. Aesa radars are alot cheaper now, as long as you don’t install too many. If we want more frigates they need to be cheaper, we had alot of leanders because they cost £120 million in today’s currency not closer to a billion.
Cheaper frigates are less effective frigates. Leanders were quickly rendered defenceless
Well Leander were defenceless because of lousy missile and non modernised guns it had.
Have to disagree — systems drive costs not displacement.
Steel is cheap and air is free.
Having a credible naval supply chain also helps.
Plus a design function that can walk and chew gum.
And finally no service gold platers on ego trips.
Fraser
A Leander. What an amazing frigate!
Just imagine today a Leander hull, two modern diesel engines, 1x 57 mm, 1x 40 mm, 8 vls cell for Camm selfdefence and a towed array sonar…
Less people onboard, more space for everybody, no goldplating.
Not £120 for sure, but probably less than “closer to a billion”.
So more expensive in equipment nearly than a Type 31 yet limited to a small hull that cannot be upgraded
Hugo
There are three very good reasons why this ship is substantially smaller than a contemporary RN frigate; despite having a “very similar” armament.
The clue is to be found in the second word of this phrase: naval architecture
Mousekid, posting above, has got two of those three very good reasons absolutely nailed. So mousekid is hereby awarded a score of “67% spot on” and also an emoji (for trying very hard – and writing a very whitty post) 👍
Once all three of these very important internal space factors – so the often very-easily-overlooked “architecture” in that key phrase naval architecture – are all factored into the ship’s internal design……
Incidentially, that small overall size also makes it a much harder target for a torpedo or missile to hit – especially with the very clean sloping / faceted superstructure.
So that puts puts all of Frasers comments (posting above) into perspective,,
– so I agree with Fraser …..we should be able to do better…and go smaller; all without loosing any key capabilities ……..
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Going smaller reduces choices for upgrades and reduces crew comfort depending on crew size. Which arguably crews are too small and France has had to increase there’s.
But a very key factor is range. This ship has a range less than half that of the Type 31, and with our shrunken logistics chain I think it’s key we maintain a long cruising range
I would agree on range,but I have felt for some time that the RFA needs a pair of modern day Rover Class (11500t) vessels to supplement the Tide Class..
I’d agree however I think with the Waves gone we will carry forward with only 4 tankers
With a promised larger surface fleet comes greater need of THE RFA I hope the MOD/POLITICAL ELITE realise that!
Also, as far as we know from public information, the Formidable class were also not designed to escort nuclear carriers at high speeds for long distances as part of a US CVBG. That’s a significant factor which allowed them to be made smaller and cheaper than many NATO frigates/destroyers. If you must squeeze out a consistent 30 kts over long trans-Atlantic distances, suddenly your ship balloons in size.
Superblick
A very fair point: very well made.
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
No — that dog don’t hunt.
First up primary defence of the CVN’s is a USN responsibility.
They don’t need outside help.
We don’t design RN vessels to USN performance standards.
Or at least we shouldn’t — they can gold plate and still remain credible while we cannot.
As for performance and range — GT’s are light but bulky and need 50% more fuel.
Large scale diesels are heavier but take up less volume and are a well understood tech with lots of development ongoing for the commercial world and a good track record regarding reliability and servicing.
Atlantic scale stuff — diesels win out.
GTs need too much fuel.
I don’t think you quite grasp a few things. Once you get over 8000 tonnne-ish the ship’s propulsion irrespective of type for a given level of performance takes up roughly the same volume within a hull. Yes are light and take up little space. But that has to be offset against the need for air and the need to exhaust efflux consequently a large volume within hulls of GT ships is empty ships. Modern diesels make take up less volume but you need more of them to match GT performance. Nuclear may not need fuel so there are no fuel tanks, but the reactor needs volume for shielding which offsets the absence of fuel tanks. And so on.
Full grasp of the various propulsive issues involved — Big Auto manages to make things work while the MOD / RN makes the odd howler on a regular basis.
Diesels work for front line Naval assets.
Mix and match the various technologies involved but they work and they work well.
Steam — we have made work across the ages.
Steam vs Diesel — any thoughts on the weight / volumetric match up?
GT’s have their uses but they are a limited tech with known issues as in their poor economy in a marine setting.
Volumetric efficiency — Diesels vs GT’s …
Not getting the 8K limit.
Formidable looks pretty lean for a sub 4K tonne ship.
T45 look very flabby for a ship with double the displacement.
Obviously many parameters involved.
Navy / user perspective — Formidable is loved and cherished while the T45’s are the unloved step children.
Probably not fair but others have raised the comparison.
I think the tonnage is a “reference figure”
I reckon if you bought a large bathtub and put the ship in at combat trim today, it would displace a different tonnage.
Does it only operate the Aster-15? Of the four Sylver VLS modules, two are the A43 variant, only capable of using the Aster-15, but the other two A50 modules are the same found on the Horizon-class and Daring-class destroyers, with Aster-30 capability.
The RSAF certainly operates the Aster-30, I’d be interested as to why the RSN does not (if that is the case, and not simply a typo).
Edit: I’ve just checked the RSN website, and there’s no differentiation between Aster-15 and Aster-30; it simply refers to Aster. That said, the statistics listed are those of the Aster-15 variant.
Nope.
Sister ship RSS Stalwart fired 2 x Aster 30 simultaneously at RIMPAC 2024
It’s interesting to compare Singapore with Ireland. I think Ireland is ‘richer’ with slightly less population and yet can hardly put a few OPV to sea. Singapore operates submarines, frigates, corvettes, and patrol vessels. Technically advance hulls which are well equipped.
Irelands wealth is mostly on paper only, gdp ect massively inflated by having large companies like Apple exploiting their generous tax regime.
Yes. Economically, in real terms, they are a sub-region of the UK. EU tax unification would kill them.
Singapore operates 8 of these 1,200 Independence class ships. One class of patrol ships is bigger and better equipped than the entire Irish navy…….
And the Irish Sea is just like the South China Sea.
Geography is everything when it comes to defence structure.
The more interesting point is why is Taiwan not more like Singapore ( 3% GDP long period) when it comes to defence spending ( was 1.8% and few years ago is now claimed to be 2.3%)
The Irish Sea is not in dispute
Exactluy.
But does that mean the Irish don’t want to or need to defend the EU?
Ireland is neutral, try waking up and Guinness
Suspect rest of Europe will become fed up of Irelands double standards soon!!
Like, the EU is fed up with the UK? Double standard of leaving and still wanting free trade?
You brexiters/remainers need to open your eyes, Imagine two ships sinking,it doesn’t ultimately matter which ship your on,there both still sinking!
you should stop taking hallucinogenic substances
You have to when it comes to
Brexitiers/remainers it says so on the packet!
double standard is EU wanting access to british waters for fishery remaining.
Norway is ‘out of EU’ but in the European economic area , EEA
Lots of other countries arent in EU like Switzerland, or even in Europe and have FTA with EU.
And the UK eating and having the cake?
.
The South China Sea double standard?
The EU has concluded over 40 trade agreements with over 70 countries
EU,is a tarde block doesnt have an integrated command structure , as much as the French want it
I am simply talking about crewing 8 small ships.
Still wrong.
I am not sure Singapore managing to have the crew and the hulls to have 8 of them is WRONG.
Singapore navy has 6 Multi Roles Combat Vessels which are 8,000 tons displacement.
Please expect these co-developed with Saab vessels ready by 2026 onwards.
LHD for F35B fighters on planning stage.
Once the 6 new 218SG submarines completed sea test, Singapore would have a navy that could defence the Singapore Straits and patrol the Malacca Straits more efficiently.
RSN cut steel on 2 x 8000T surface combatants (6 planned)
Yes. They need to help shore up the capabilities of larger neighbours. I am not going to say to oppose the PRC but to balance them.
It’s new 5000 tonnne MRCV with steel cut for the first two vessels is the model for replacing the Rivers. From the get go, they are a USV mothership with stern slipways (that could also be used for manned RM assault craft with manned/unmanned hanger for helicopter and UAVs which has margins for massive growth and a crew of just 80. Reportedly £120-£150 a ship that shows up the Rivers as bad value for money. Maybe we ought to outsource procurement to the Singaporeans and send our people there to learn.
See that 80 crew part, terrible replacement for the rivers.
Also River were cheap, propping up BAE was expensive
Designed as a mothership with a displacement of around 8,000 to 10,000 tons.
The video is worth watching. Scroll down the attached article to watch it.
LINK
IMDEX 2025
I think its 8000T
I’m afraid I must disagree with you on that last part!
I don’t think we’ve got much of value to teach because Singapore did not face political pressure to reap a post Cold-War peace dividend, and there remains a broad public consensus for the need for defence, so budgets are stable. The RSN has also had a fairly consistent threat environment to plan around, and it does not have nuclear submarines or carriers, which are far more complex than current assets. So in some ways, the RSN and broader SAF has enjoyed a period of relatively “easy living”. Our procurement guys would have the same difficulties navigating your environment.
Rather, it is Singapore which has much to learn, from watching the present UK Government and RN begin to wrest itself out of the post ’91 hole, while still maintaining world class (and despite the doom and gloom the RN *is still indisputably* world class) capabilities in a very difficult trans-Atlantic diplomatic environment. That seems to me to be a more significant task, and a meaningful lesson in politics.
(also the £150m MRCV cost was just an estimate given by GlobalData for ST Engineering’s contract to design and build the ships…)
I served 11 years with the RSN in the late 80s to mid 90s, which we were using old LST from US used in the Vietnam war and patrol crafts and the recently retired corvettes. Even then, we used lots of modernized machinery and weapons that kept them running at more efficiency that puts lots of larger nations navy to shame. Today, the RSN is a powerful little navy using AI and modern technology to keep it relevant in its defense of the nations.
Singapore is also a major shipbuilding industry in the world, with many of the current vessels locally made under license but customized for its unique capabilities and design for the region. With limited resources including manpower, it is import that the RSN deploy technologies to overcome these shortcomings .
Rev Tommy
A very interesting post…..
I must admit I had previously thought that Singapore’s own shipbuilding industry had “withered” since the island became quite rich in the late 1980’s
However, judging by your comment (above), it is obvously still thriving…
Therefore can I please ask that you please tell us a bit more about the island’s shipbuilding capabilities today – especially its naval industry /capabilities?
In anticipation: many thanks
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Slightly related : Singapore builds 97% of the world’s deep sea oil rigs
All big RSN combat ships, meaning stuff bigger than a mini unmanned boat, are built at Benoi Shipyards (ST Marine) or some other shipyard in Singapore, with the typical exception of the first-in-class (and maybe second-in-class), if the design basis is foreign. For instance, the RSS Formidable, featured in this post, was built and fitted out in France at then-DCNS. Subsequent vessels were built at Benoi. Local manufacturing began with the Seawolf class Missile-Gunboat in the 70s, I think.
What does “built” mean? Here, it means the hull is manufactured locally, and the design and integration of subsystems is between mostly to almost-entirely domestic, though with SME assistance from foreign shipbuilding firms. Sometimes the amount of design variance is almost total. There is very little left from the base La Fayette Class frigate upon which the Formidables are based apart from the hull. Much relied upon Thales and DCNS expertise, but domestic firms and agencies undertook a large proportion of critical design and research work, so that foreign firms’ expertise could be utilised meaningfully. However, many critical components like engines and radars are sourced overseas. Some components which cannot or ought not be sourced overseas, are sourced indigenously.
One class of larger unmanned boat was built at another Asian country’s shipyard. That was a nice thing to learn of. Other than that, most of them are manufactured and fitted out locally.
Combat submarines are not manufactured here.
Commercial shipyards – there are several which are still operating, producing specialised offshore marine oil and gas rigs, terminals, etc., and performing MRO services for ships. Value added – that’s the bit that Singaporean firms like Seatrium actually do – varies depending on oil price, but is around 0.5-3% of GDP depending on the year. Singapore doesn’t build megatankers or anything like that anymore – today it’s mainly the Koreans and the Chinese in that market. The reason for this is that the work done in Singapore today fits the local wage and skill structure in Singapore shipbuilding – low volume high complexity stuff.
Singapore actually relies on lower paid migrant workers for 38% of its workforce (1.4 mill people, organised by the ‘Orwellian’ Ministry of Manpower).
Maybe much of the pre fabricated steel structure comes from China or Korea too.
Superblick
Many thanks for giving us all a very detailed and informative answer 👍
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Rev Tommy
A “little navy” who dares to send a lonely frigate to the other side of the world: bravo ! (in french in the text)
BDSSU wasn’t founded in 2018. The name came into usage about 2012 when NP1022 and the RNLO post moved over to Joint Forces Command as was. The post was civilianised for several years with defence fuels group taking the lead. In March 2017 the Commander BDSSU position was established as a Royal Navy Commander. The first was a short-term acting fill by the CO of RN Gib Squadron moving across at short notice before it has been filled by a Fleet Air Arm officer ever since.
I think the Kiwis babysat the show as they were the only ones in Singapore in the late 70’s and 80’s…was in Sembawang doing various dry dockings then and there wasn’t anyone else in sight
Yes
BDSSU or Sembawang was used by the USN and allies in the Indo-Pac and still is. CO used to be Def Attache now separated.
A very interesting country to visit and when you meet Singaporeans they have a very different view of the British Empire compared to many hang wringing Brits. They celebrate Sir Stamford Raffles as the father of the nation and his vision for making the Island an important trading post, which transcends modern day Singapore.
To quote one Singaporean they have taken the best of Britain; education, democracy, the language, law, innovation, welfare and hard work but nothing from the U.K. of today.
They don’t do identity or ethnic politics and with four distinct ethnic groups any sign of it is clamped down hard on. That doesn’t erase peoples backgrounds so you have for example Little India and Chinatown but you are a Singaporean first.
A lifetime on benefits is not a life style choice and they don’t have any illegal immigrants. The place is clean, well run, people are motivated to work hard and there is the rule of law. They are keen on protecting their environment but that doesn’t stop development.
The underground system (MRT) makes Londons look distinctly third world.
Our politicians could learn a lot from a visit.
If you are interested in history then it is a great place to spend a few days seeing more than just the tourist hotspots and hiring one of the professionals guides who are superb.
To stand outside the old Admirals house you can easily imagine PoWs and Repulse departing the naval base. Then there is the old Ford Factory where General Percival signed the surrender in 1942. The most moving is undoubtedly the Kranji War Graves cemetery with over 4000 Empire troops (Brits, Aussies, Indians, Malay, Kiwis and others) interred where it is hard not to feel emotional for those who made the ultimate sacrifice.
Yes matey,my Uncle was on the Repulse. Captured. Passed away a few years ago. Got on like a House on fire. Real shipmate. Spoke Very little about,pow’s. What little was enough!👌🙃 FlyNavy 🇬🇧
Bless him.
Yes. The exemplar of the asian capitalist-party-state where freedom of speech/political expression is limited and one party predominates.
China has learnt from that and has adjusted its Leninist-party-state system – which was Lenin’s adaptation of the communist ideology- which was implemented by Mao and later became the current capitalist-CCP-party-state system from Deng onwards
Can I point out that the population of CHINA will drop from current 1.41Bn to nearer
0.68Bn by 2100 with the massive problems that will bring,the true
Longterm superpower in the region will be INDIA expected to rise from 1.42Bn to 1.69Bn in the same period..a DEMOCRACY so far! INDONESIA & NIGERIA are also worth watching in this respect!
Its GDP not population that matters . Ask the US or Japan
Typing Tosh again, Ask the US about Vietnam.
Japan’s as an example,GDP has struggled due partly due to a fall in population,
The less people there are,the less money is generated: Britain’s GDP
has only really risen over the last
20yrs due to increase in population ( mainly due to massive IMMIGRANTION!)
However the money per head of population has not improved therfore we don’t actually feel or are Richer(GDP IS REALLY A BIT OF A CON)
You mentioned USA,Any Country which borrows on the scale the
USA has over the last 20yrs or so will obviously generate more GDP
But the interest repayments on the Dept will become impossible to service over time!
CHINA’S Big problem (as is several other Far Eastern Countries, and Developed countries around the World,) A MASSIVE drop in population (It will be on average about the population of LONDON!
9-10 Million per year for the next
75yrs!!!) This WILL effect GDP massively you can’t lose that sort of population and generate GROWTH!
BRITAIN has struggled to generate any meaningful growth for at least 30yrs,and countless governments have attempted to distort GDP(growth) with IMMIGRANTION, which naturally distorts GDP,however growth per head has been very poor and no Government in that time period has come up with any solutions!
The current chancellor is find out the hard way how tough that is!
Don’t SIOP the boats !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The boats are infact just a smoke screen by political parties/media the real problem is Legal Migration roughly 35 times that figure!
Jim, is that you ? You just recited that almost word for word from a previous post on UKDJ. Remember me ?
Sorry David I’m not ‘jim’ but he sounds like someone of like mind!
It is me
This is very confusing!
i am jim
Who in the world is JIM,Is it true he has a bullet hole in the ear!
what hole are you looking for?
i have the jim hole
no you may NOT
No they celebrate LKY.
No they don’t. Show me a statue or even bust of LKY…
Thats because he ‘dictated’ that there were to be none -outdoors
So there is the Lee Kuan Yee memorial Park instead.
Your LKY memorial park
^
Human Rights there?
4th highest GDP per capita, #1 passport and you question human rights? Dude, I work in Africa
Singapore has 1.5 mill migrant workers who see little of the benefits for the citizens
They have a Ministry of Manpower to run their migrant worker system in authoritarian ways
That’s why it was amusing that some Brexiters wanted the UK to be some sort of ‘Singapore on the Thames’ which would have required a level of authoritarian state intervention unseen since Henry 8th!
As one example, my understanding that the Singaporean Government owns all housing and ensures that all ethnic groups are fully mixed and integrated.
“4th highest GDP per capita in the world “
Thats largely because its the asian capital of commodity transfer pricing and tax minimisation.
The big Australian mining companies BHP and Rio Tinto have their marketing offices in Singapore , where there arent mines of course.
https://www.afr.com/companies/professional-services/how-bhp-and-rio-tinto-channelled-billions-through-singapore-20150406-1mezkc
Its a bit like Ireland does for the EU , transfer income and taxes from the countries in EU it occurs and move it through a small corporate staff in glass towers in Dublin.
Foreign Wealth Fund, no NHS there, little welfare
Yes, the manufacturing sector is indeed the largest component of Singapore’s economy, contributing between 20% and 25% of the country’s annual GDP. It’s a key driver of Singapore’s economy and has transitioned from a low-cost, labor-intensive industry to one focused on high-value manufacturing.
Thats right , Rolls Royce has a Trent final assembly plant there, tax minimisation helps too.
Large migrant workforce for the low skilled work too , 1.5 mill or 40% of its labour force
Beautiful warship comparable to the Type 26.
Beautiful? Good looking, yes.
Comparable to T26? More heavily armed, but not as sophisticated in terms of propulsion.
I’ll say that when they fill up all the Mk 41 VLS and get proper ASW ship-launched torpedoes.
They’re not getting ship launched Torpedoes
So two actual fitted harpoons is heavily armed? It FFBNW the other 14 missiles…..? Personally I’d rather have eight real NSM than 2 real Harpoon and 14 theoretical missiles…..
Lethality is all about kill chain. There is no point in optimising one bit of the chain. It will make no difference unless the whole thing chain is consistent.
I’m also not at all sure that an all A15 loadout provides the degree of all round performance needed.
Supportive Bloke
Singapoes Formitable is stealthy, well-armed, well-equipped and lean-manned.
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Why would we buy one
Hugo
Please see above.
I have just answered your other post
Peter (irate Taxpayer)
If the govt has sailors.
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/imdex-2019-st-engineering-unveils-vanguard-130-multi-role-combatant-concept
Is it that well armed?
2 x Harpoon
32 x A15
1 x 76mm
Is that heavily armed?
It doesn’t feel like a very rounded armament to me?
Of course the real questions are around all the bits you can’t see and are never disclosed. The bits that don’t go bang…..
In other photographs, such as live fire exercises, you can see them fit out the various Mk.141 pedestals with two quad launchers for 8 total. Sometimes they shift the launchers around the pedestals. The centre missile deck (one journalist called it the “magic deck”) was also seen fitted with a double RHIB launch and recovery system in addition to missiles, like during the various deployments to Aden for counter-piracy with CTF-151. The RSN has never itself confirmed or denied a purported capability to mount 24 harpoons, though the 6 pedestals with matching exhaust holes are always available.
What is heavily armed?
2000 lbs of baked beans and 4000 bog rolls?
Was discount last week at Lidl
For a ship that sized it is well armed.
Maybe a type of vessel IRELAND Should look at so it can start pulling its weight in Europe & NATO! At least SINGAPOR nows how to defend itself!
It will be interesting to see if Ireland manages to stay neutral.
WIZ
However IF
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
The Swiss are neutral but still manage to defend themselves!
With 0.7% of GDP on defence, but they are increasing it ( F35s are expensive) to 1% by 2030 !
Indeed, could they fit the 40mm Bofors onboard the paddle steamers!!!
In the Middle Ages, the Counts of Savoy maintained a small fleet of warships on Lake Geneva. These warships were stationed near Chillon Castle. Beyond this historical context, Lake Geneva is known for its passenger ferries, sightseeing boats, and paddle steamers.
Nigel
Adding the (excellent) Swedish-made 40mm Bofers to the Swiss paddle steamer will make it more haevily armed than an RN OPV!.
However I suspect that the Swiss, being very Swiss, will prefer to use their own native Oerlikkon’s…..
———————–.
The other advantage of a paddle steamer is that, unlike something fitted with propellers, it can get in very close to the shoreline. That may well make it very suitable for use by our very own bootnecks = as a new litteroll assault craft
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Peter
You should submit as 1SL
Little Froggy
1SL?
So, “no go” to the 1SL vacancy
It would have to be CDS
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
🙂
Ireland doesnt belong to Nato !
Its always been neutral since the Anglo-Irish war ended and was replaced by the Irish civil war ( executed maybe 8 x more people without trial than the british did – after military trials)
If they were ” neutral ” they would not be and should not be in the EU, yet they are one of the biggest tax havens in the EU,
Ireland and Austria (and Sweden and Finland until recently) are neutral and belong to EU.
Nato is different to EU as it includes countries on the other side of North Atlantic, and Turkiye which isn’t in Europe either.
Thank you for your post, I’ll add Austria to my list of neutral
Freeloaders!
And dont forget that the Vatican is neutral.
Add that to your list too, Amen
If been watching TV,they have a Swiss army, But no mention of a NAVY or Airforce! Which surprises me!!
Correction,SIster Claire tell me they have a great host in the Sky!
But still no mention of a NAVY!
Like the Russian oligarchs in the UK and the UK being in NATO?
Dukeofurl
“Neutrality” has no value except for a country explaining to its own people that they won’t be defended in case of war.
The only value of “Neutrality” is given by the other belligerant countries, IF they decide to respect this neutrality.
The neutrality is efficient until it doesn’t exist anylonger: look at Belgium, Nederland and Denmark in 1939. They were neutrals until they were invaded!
Swiss was neutral and stayed neutral during WWII because:
So Ireland’s neutrality doesn’t depend on what says or wishes Ireland.
It depends on the appetite of countries who could have a strategic interest to blokade the UK in one or another way.
And following the swiss example, one good way to deterre is to have the right level of armed forces, because since the Roman Empire, everyone knows that “Si vis pacem, para bellum”.
Swiss have 1.2% of GDP on defence so it works for them, Ireland probably a lot less. Austria I dont know.
I think those countries can work out whats in their best interest.
Singapore is officially non-aligned too
“Singapore avoids taking sides in major geopolitical issues, positioning itself as a neutral facilitator and a “friend of all, enemy of none”
What about China’s GDP on defense? How many %?
And which side are you? China or Taiwan?
Neighbours are from Taiwan, they just want the US to butt out.
China is Taiwans biggest trading partner
Egg fried rice is sold out only bog of the little world among the stalks, and grow familiar with the countless indescribable forms of the insects and flies, then I feel the presence of the Almighty, who formed us in his own image, and the breath
I’ve written a piece about China and the Problems it has with longterm GDP a few articles above,I think Taiwan may have similar problems but I don’t have the figures at hand, I personally never thought in was a wise longterm decision for China to take back Hong Kong/Macau,it was more political ego rather than longterm Economic sense!
I think their view of Taiwan is similar and will probably end in tears as well!
If the Cold War had gone nuclear Vienna would have been targeted by the Warsaw Pact.
Geography is the question. A rifle in every home is good. But the Swiss have a force multiplier the Alps. Ireland is just a soggy nowhere of little importance to anybody but the Irish themselves.
WIZ
Question is: does Ireland will stay forever, in our DT’s world, a “soggy nowhere of little importance”?
I think IRELAND has ‘some’ potential strategic importance
In defence, its position in the Atlantic could be useful especially in ASW if it were to purchase long range ASW aircraft and some Light ASW vessels it would be interesting!
Something stealthy with a flight deck? Yes.
Is Ireland in NATO? I thought Mongolia was a member
I’ve been hinting all along that IRELAND Should, but that ultimately is up to them! As for MONGOLIA, Now that would be interesting, But I can’t see why not…But it will probably cause
WW3….So it was your suggestion,
Right!
You’re not in a good position. You don’t have the cards right now.
You’re gambling with the lives of millions of people and what you’re doing is very disrespectful
Have you said thank you?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory-class_corvette
Interesting aren’t they?
24 harpoons then replaced by Blue Spear
Articles states and photo shows only two normally fitted.
There is space for 24 but that is a FFBNW number.
There is not even space for 24 SSM on any RN ship, let alone FBNW
You can put 16 NSM on any of the T45/23/26/31 if you wanted to. The units can stack.
But all the new ones have a Mk41 VLS so they. A take whether is needed in addition.
The MK41 does the air launched JSM version not the different body NSM used by RN
16 NSM staked anywhere? Do you have any proof? Maybe on top of your head? Also add a few 16inch guns too?
You are the one lecturing about physics, hypersonic missiles can never work AESA cannot provide 360 coverage?
More voodooo theory?
Interesting counterpoint to MOD / RN performance of the recent past.
They seem to be rational grown ups dealing with their challenges methodically.
Their crew numbers show how far off the pace we are.
Singapore — nice city to visit.
One post independence statue stood out.
Suggests they have the confidence / self belief to quickly move on from the colony angle.
Hardly. 70 crew is far too few. France has had to raise its crew numbers after the Red Sea crisis
Hugo
This is what “superblick, posting directly above, said about the design of the Formitables:
Therefore, as I said yesterday, I very strongly suspect (like mousekid) that the RSN has “got it nailed” when it comes to having an excellent internal design of the Formidable’s
…..something which, then in turn, directly leads to needing fewer numbers of crew.
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Hope all their guns can point to the rear !
Aiming at your head?
I don’t get you, I was referring to the WW2 Japanese attack on Singapore, my great Grandad was a POW.
They did turn the 5 x 15 in Changi battery at Fort Siloso guns inland to fire at the advancing land forces.
Its a US origin myth that you are spouting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Siloso
“5 x 15 inch guns” ? You might want to check your comment for facts before posting such a put down. It’s not really that difficult to copy and paste is it ? It also said that only the one fortification managed to do this (out of the 12) and many British casualties were sustained by this friendly fire.
Sometimes being a Pedant makes you look like an arse. Actually, you always look like an arse, can’t seem to help yourself.
Moderators please
Snivelling Arse.
1 battery had 2 15 in guns( Buona Vista battery) , The other, Johore battery, had 3 15in guns
Changi battery had 6 in guns
This is the Buona Vista battery site today in urbanised singapore
Weriggle all you like, It’s not what you wrote when you chose to be an Arse. Now do us all a favour and drop off the internet. No one cares.
Are you submarine matters?
Superblick
I do not understand your comment
Could you please explain it in more detail
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
occurred to me you might be the guy who ran the submarine matters blog
Superblick
In a word – “no”
I do not even know of “submarine blog”
Could you please post a link
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
here:
https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/
he is also a pete, and presumably pays his taxes
Superblick
and lots of them, wich are all paid very regularly and very punctually
however,,,,…. in return = I receive very few public services….
…….that is why I am “IRATE”
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
sorry the moderators scrubbed my link, but you only have to search “gentleseas submarine matters” in google and you will get the correct blog as the first return
Superblick
Thank you for the link …..It is all begining to make a lot more sense now……..
I am definitely not the author of the submarine blog you mentioned.
I do however know quite a bit about UK/US subs.
…….so please see my many earlier posts here on Navy Lookout
………..especially the ones where I comment on the UK submarine fleets cr**py shoreside support infrastucture -or rather – the lack of it…
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
will do
sorry moderators – i did not see my link get posted!
Ultimately its all about balance the balance between ship size,speed,range,armament,
Electronic fit (radar,sonar,etc etc),stealth!
These vessels seem to score highly in that respect!
Nig e
👍
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)