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Tomartyr

Hope they put them on the carriers soon so we can hear the last of the “one cheap drone could sink that” brigade.

Sunmack

Our carriers do seem less well protected than equivalents in most other Western navies. That definitely can’t be because we have more escorts as we definitely don’t.
I think that they definitely need radar guided guns to defend against surface drone swarms. I don’t know if Phalanx can do that and if it can then we should put on the full original planned numbers. If not then something should installed in the space reserved for the 30mm mounts that were never fitted.

D J

Phalanx has already been used against incoming mortar rounds in the land domain, so it definitely can. It, however is reasonably short ranged. The further out you engage, hopefully the less of them make it to Phalanx range & the lower chance of one sneaking through hitting the ship.

The other problem with Phalanx is it fires solid rounds. That means it must physically hit the target to take effect. The downside when ships are in close proximity, is the chance of collateral damage goes up (ie ships in the background can be hit by the Phalanx rounds, sometimes kilometres away). Air burst (either timed or proximity with timed backup) are generally much safer in that regard.

Duker

Phalanx solid rounds ?

The M940 also has a self-destruct function resulting in the round self-destructing if it does not hit a target. The 20mm M940 is fired from the C-RAM system.” Northrup Grumman

Hugo

There are only 3 phalanx mounts. And unlikely anything other than 30mm will be installed on the other mounts

Supportive Bloke

It us highly likely that anti drone systems are fitted to QEC.

I should say that there will be some inherent capability using the radar anyway but a dedicated system wouldn’t go amiss.

John

I guess the advantage over laser is that it would be less impacted by fog, smoke and other airborne particles that could disrupt the energy of a laser.

Dr J Greene

Yes you are correct John, most lasers under 10kw are negatively affected by the density of molecules in the air.
Increasing the energy to the Mw range, and beyond, would effectively overcome this issue, but we have always found problems with the materials used as reflectors within a given laser system, that is at a certain energy level – they melt.
Due to this, materials improvements and inclusion of novel ways to increase heat tolerance have helped, and will continue to improve the power outage.
Lasers will no doubt be formidable, but probably only in another 8 to 12 year’s, depending on research spending, or war.

Last edited 1 month ago by Dr J Greene
Duker

Thanks for that. The US Army has deployed in the ME its 20kW mobile laser system

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/04/24/army-has-officially-deployed-laser-weapons-overseas-combat-enemy-drones.html

Last edited 30 days ago by Duker
Spyinthesky

Read recently in an article that the US has had serious problems up-powering its mobile laser system which is heightening the RFDEW aspect of their joint development. I assume the problems in a compact mobile system probably relates to Dr J Greene’s contribution.

Irate Taxpayer (Peter)

SpyintheSky

Probably worth nothing at this point in time (2024) that the issues being raised by Dr J Greene (posting above), and also yourself, are precisely the sames ones that were first raised by the US SDI and BMDO programme leaders way back in the late 1980’s.

i.e. that the more one increases the power input into the laser the more that “other factors” – such as the known limits of materials technology and atmospheric blooming – then start to really “kick in”

Thus I personally doubt that we will be seeing a really effective high-powered (and thus long range) compact military laser anytime soon

———————

Thus I have to say that I agree with Deepsixteen (posting below) that, at this point in time = the Bofers 40mm is frankly a much better all-round bet for fitting to all RN ships.

Peter (Irate Taxpayer)

Sean

yes

Deepsixteen

I would rather see these which keep the threat at a much greater distance.
https://www.navylookout.com/in-focus-the-bofors-40mm-mk-4-gun-that-will-equip-the-type-31-frigates/

Duker

The story mentions classified C-UAS

This was it from a firm Kirintec, a BAE company but based in Herefordshire which is good
https://navalinstitute.com.au/contract-for-rn-drone-jammer-awarded/
The contract covers an initial quantity of up to 11 C-UAS RF Jammers and includes the provision of 1 years in service support and spares’

nige

Not only good for the Army to protect units in the front line and supporting troops. Also for ports like Plymouth, Portsmouth and Culdrose N.A.S.
There are many establishments that need this system such as RAF Lossiemouth.With so many eggs in one basket drones could cost UK defence dear. How many suicide drones can you fit in a 40 ft contaner?

S Crossland

To you with some knowledge out there. Is not the possibility to bring down a drone with the radio energy weapon at a range of 1k not better than no ability to do it. Forgetting lasers and guns.

Duker

Im sure the radio ‘energy’ isnt enough to bring down a drone, its just used to confuse the drones software and its comms links