The sole UK solid stores support ship RFA Fort Victoria is being prepared to be laid up for at least a year, joining RFA Tiderace and RFA Wave Ruler in Seaforth Docks, Liverpool in long-term reserve.
Fort Victoria was moved out of Cammell Laird shipyard this week where she has been inactive or undergoing maintenance since she arrived there in September 2023. She was temporarily berthed at the Liverpool Cruise Terminal (pictured above). She has not conducted a RAS since 2021, there is no crew available or plans for her to rejoin the fleet anytime soon. CL has continued to conduct maintenance and a recent dry-docking as part of the pre-existing In-Service Support contract with the MoD. Over the last decade, large sums have been spent on maintaining this ship including converting her rigs to be compatible with the QEC carriers.
Besides the lack of sailors, the cost of bringing Fort Victoria’s firefighting and munitions handling safety equipment up to more stringent modern standards to meet Lloyds certification is believed to be prohibitively expensive. In the short term, the RN carrier strike group is going to have to rely on solid stores support from Norwegian Auxiliary HMNoS Maud and VERTREP transfers of stores from RFA Tidespring.
In the longer term, the RFA will have a problem generating experienced crews to operate the 3 new Fleet Solid Support ships they are not able to reactivate Fort Victoria. The replenishment at sea of liquids (RAS(L) using hoses is a challenging evolution at the best of times but the transfer of solid stores by heavy jackstay (RAS(S)) is even more demanding. To safely manage this in all weathers requires sailors with niche seamanship skills that are regularly rehearsed both by the RFA and by RN warships.
Cammell Laird needs to make urgent repairs to the lock gate so ships have been moved out of the wet basin this week including RFA Fort Victoria, RFA Proteus and RFA Tideforce.
In more positive developments, Proteus has been moved to a temporary berth but it is believed she will sail soon and finally begin work in her intended role of protecting critical undersea infrastructure. RFA Tideforce left the Mersey this week on completion of her refit but will be laid up in a ‘hot state’ in Portland. There are not enough sailors to crew her sufficiently to act as the FOST tanker.
With personnel numbers continuing to fall, the RFA is verging on collapse. There is an internal debate about how many of its 13 ships it can operate simultaneously. This will be 6 ships or less, moving between readiness states depending on priorities and available personnel.
RFA Argus returned to Portland this week after nearly a year on the Littoral Response Group (South) deployment with RFA Lyme Bay. As previously reported RFA Cardigan Bay is in Portland with no crew available even to take her to Falmouth for refit and her maintenance work has now been postponed to next Spring. RFA Lyme Bay is also making her way home to the UK and may also be left without a crew upon her return. RFA Stirling Castle is alongside in Portland effectively out of action with a crane defect and skeleton crew only. The RN has tasked Serco vessel SD Northern River to support autonomous MCM trials in her absence.
The new government failed its first serious test of its commitment to defence by stalling on the the RFA pay issue. (Meanwhile, junior doctors and train drivers were quickly awarded very substantial pay rises.) There has been no further progress in the last few months or any meaningful government response to the unprecedented series of strikes and the increasingly desperate state of the RFA.
The most worrying read.
No RFA = No Blue Water outputs.
This would cost chicken feed to fix. Putin/Xi/Mullahs must be laughing themselves silly at this self inflicted defence impairment.
Certainly Xi and “the Mullahs” don’t give the UK a second thought … Putin might be laughing though.
Interesting that RV Triton is back in Portland, assuming the photos are recent.
I wonder if some use could be made of such a long ranged, efficient vessel in the survey role for the RN, as it has been doing privately?
As the RN paid off a couple of survey ship not long ago as a cost cutting exercise I think it’s unlikely.
That’ll be RV Triton that has been laid up since Gardline were bought by Boskalis nigh-on ten years ago? The RV Triton built as a demonstrator vessel over twenty years ago? That RV Triton?
Scrap, fit only for.
That’s a pity, I quite liked the design aesthetically and it seemed to have reasonably impressive stats for a test platform.
I’m not yet convinced of Labour’s commitment East of Suez. Between the French Kerguelen Islands deal and the disgraceful surrender of the Chagos Archipelago, Europe has signalled it is abandoning the Indian Ocean to the Chinese. Labour has not fixed the RFA pay issue and did not maintain the loan guarantee for Harland and Wolff so it is clear that Defence is way down its priority list.
It also sent a message to Argentina now their saying the Falklands will be theirs. Their navy is also improving their warships and troopships in numbers. I guess if it happens again the Falklands could be lost. Theirs to much going on with Putin
No its not. Chagos has always been part of Mauritius ever since RN conquered it from French in 1812- and part of their colony before that Population still mostly speak French. International Court has ruled in Mauritius favour
BIOT was created out of thin air to satisfy the US with Diego Garcia as a base in return of RN getting Polaris missiles
Seychelles used to be part of the Mauritius colony too until it was spun of around 1903. Gan AB used to be used by the RAF when India/Pakistan became independent . DO you oppose that as well
None of your claims match the facts as the US will continue to lease Diego Garcia off Mauritius instead of Britain.
Don’t blame Labour for this. Conservatives had more than a decade to sort it out and it only got worse.
Do understand that the Tory government refused to back the loan guarantee and so did the new government. Good job too. H &W was propped up by massive debt.
I can and will blame the new Labour government for not sorting out the RFA pay dispute, as they did with the train drivers and junior doctors.
RFA is a relativity issue with the RN. Cant do one without other.
So the 30% effective pay cut since 2010 for RFA is all labours fault!
And the 4.5% offer in November 2023 means that the new government is to blame
If Fort Victoria hasn’t done a RAS(S) since 2021 then how much have the skills perished? Has the RN worked with NATO or other stores ships enough to maintain it?
RFA skills to consider as well as RN.
I think you’ll find that the RFA in general has done (literally) a handful of RAS(S) – as opposed to RAS(L) and VERTREP – in the last 15 years.
That they managed to conduct a 14 tonne RAS(A) on CSG 21 was nothing short of a miracle.
With such a long gap does it actually put the whole FSS programme at risk, especially with the lack of guarantees at HW
I doubt it. It’ll just mean a very long and quiet expensive training program before the ships are cleared to conduct transfers in the full range of weather and sea conditions.
Q1 – lots. Q2 yes the USNS.
Paying these crews and getting all these ships back to sea would cost nothing in the scheme of £1.2 Trillion a year of government spending. However once the ships are gone and the skills are lost…
Newspapers are fond of talking up China – but the RFA gives the UK a capability they don’t have – an ability to deploy globally. Very soon that capability will be gone.
I would guess the defence review will effectively abandon east of Suez, though probably without saying so directly. The easiest thing to cut, politically, is the F-35. Cap the procurement at 48, or maybe 60, and then mothball or sell one of the carriers. No political cost for that and there would be large short-term manpower savings, which are urgently needed. … The follow-on benefit is that it provides cover for cutting Type 32 entirely (and perhaps FSS) and if you are very lucky you might be able to sell of a couple of the Type 26 to Norway but axe no shipbuilding jobs in Scotland in the process. … it’s a cynical outlook, but I fear it may be coming.
Type 32 was never budgeted for
I’m pretty sure the T32 never really existed, the first time we heard anything about it was when Boris Johnson trumpeted it as an achievement of his government, I think he was meant to say T31 but once he’d said it of course it had to exist.
That the train drivers got a huge pay rise while the RFA pay dispute is still ongoing is very telling about the governing party’s priorities…
And likely the majority of voters.
How so? A recent policy exchange paper suggested that cutting HS2 would be the one thing the majority of voters are agreed upon in our increasingly polarised country. Most voters think that train drivers are overpaid (indeed most voters never actually step on a train!).
It is do not matter much what voters think if they don’t rebel, what matters is who have power over the government of the day, starting with journalists and unions and the social circle where ministers move.
The government is much more afraid of journalists than millions of voters.
This dissonance have been increasing and will propel an electoral surprise in the future since journalism is increasingly less democratic: represents less and less people views. For good and bad.
You are quite right in what you say.
I was interested see the RFA were represented by RMT…. surprisingly little support from their ‘Brothers’ in rail…
Grant
Let me explain to you the reason for this “increased polarisation”…..
The key reason for much polarisation occuring is the growing differences between voters who live in “London” when compared to voters who live in “the remainder of the UK”
———————————–
So, to use your own example:
In central London, most work (either directly or indirectly) for politicians; financial services; the civil service; the big media giants etc. There are also many students and tourists and non-doms etc in London throughout the year.
Some self-appointed expert guru’s even work for the tiny think tanks, such as Policy Exchange (which is actually, in reality, a branch of the head office of the Next clothing chain!).
Thus the average Londoner today tends to be both affulent and also has a left-wing orientated political mind-set (Note: It used to be called being a champagne socialist).
Those living and working in the affluent Whitehall / Westminster / City of London bubbles do regularly use the trains and tube and red buses – and, to be fair to them – it is a very important issue for them (i.e. on a daily basis).
So, usually due to the political pressure from all of those Londoners, our over-woked train and tube drivers driving those expensive brand-new rainbow coloured trains regularly get a very big pay rise handed out to them by those self-ame politicians who also use those trains and tube.
That pay rise even goes to all those very elderly train drivers who are just about to retire (Note: one hell of a large proportion of all of the current train and tube drivers are about to qualify for their free bus pass and thus will only get to drive a mobility scooter)
There is just one tiny snag to the uptopian transport policy that exists in London today … namely that modern Londoners really don’t like paying out for – either via their local council tax and /or via their oystercards – the huge true costs of running a modern, well-staffed, high-frequency public transport system, and running it at all hours of the day and night.
Therefore London’s Mayor has instigated a long-term policy called “fare dodging”:
This can best be summed up as “why should Londoner’s bear the true / real cost of providing all of of these very expensive local public services?” = when lobbying central government behind tightly-closed doors ensures that some other group of mugs (i.e. us national taxpayers) have to pay out for it?
However, throughout the rest of the UK, we just get in our cars……. and thus we payout – via our road tax and fuel duty – for all of those huge subsidies that are currently being given out to all of those Londoners who regularly use public transport.
——————————-
WHY?
What you failed to spot is the one key underlying reason for incresed polarisation…
This data was issued by the Office of National Statistics (ONS) in early 2024:
(and before anybody says anything….this ONS figure is completely colour-blind. It has nothing whatoever to do with a person’s skin colour)
Thus, there is now a very different outlook on life between:
So,on many various and different topics, what you will now find being said and done inside central London is completely and utterly different from what is being done and said outside of the M25…
———————-
of course, like so many other thing in modern life, the echo-chambers of social media algoritums will quickly make a bad situation worse….
————
And so, fairly soon, I think we will find that those very big differences in attitude toward “Home Defence” will have some big implications for UK defence policy(s).
Indeed, that new bloke Kier S very strongly hinted at this key issue becoming a quote – “challenge” – in the speech he made only last weekend….
regards Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
I think you have a point – I have always disagreed with the no votes in defence view, because that totally doesn’t resonate with what I know to be the views of most people I come across…. but then again I don’t drink in gin bars in North London!
The issue is exacerbated by the fact that its very hard for someone born in the UK to afford to live in London (big mortgage rates and high tax also helping), which only further drives that polarisation.
“In central London, most work (either directly or indirectly) for politicians; financial services; the civil service; the big media giants etc”
Completely false. Do you ever check the data ( from say 2022)
Out of 5.5 mill workforce only 250k are in public administration, 378k in finance and insurance, 580k in health and Social work
The big ones are
583k in admin and support
954k professional Scientific, technical
496k Information and Communication
483k Accom and food service
430k retail
https://data.london.gov.uk/dataset/employee-jobs-by-sectors
Does require ability to read spreadsheet
Millions of people rely on trains everyday. How many people need refuelling at sea?
The RFA just doesn’t have the public visibility.
Quite so
Train drivers wasnt huge- CPI inflation has been over 18% across the same years
By year its actually this with inflation highlighted
5% backdated pay rise for 2022-23…… 9.1%
4.75% rise for 23-24,…. 7.3%
4.5% increase for 24-25…. 2.2%(est)
Have you never heard of multi year contracts ?
Heres the recent yearly CPI to better inform you
https://www.statista.com/statistics/306720/cpi-rate-forecast-uk/
Any government that doesn’t keep up our armed forces and it’s subsidiaries should be tried for treason against the British people and their in the process of building three more ship’s, joke
It is not just Pay that is causing the RFA workforce to vote with their feet, their treatment by RFA Management (mostly Civil Servants and senior RN, neither of whom go to sea) has been poor for well over a decade, worsening when the HR model changed from RFA PERS OPS to NAVY PEOPLE RFA. The recent Industrial Action Short of Strike has proven that even if the RFA work force simply work to their contracted T&C’s and cease the goodwill extras, the RFA cannot operate and fulfil its role. Unfortunately RFA is already broken and has been for many years but it can still be fixed by 1. Big pay rise to better than commercial sector to stop the out flow. (an insignificant amount in the wider defence budget) 2. Massive improvement in T&C’s that are more attractive to the younger generation. But then again they have been told this for many years now.
It’s this. In spades.
RFA treated like ginger stepchildren by the dabber master race.
N-a-B
Are you suggesting that Prince Harry be appointed to a new role = Commodore of the Royal Fleet Auxillary?
regards Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
So are we talking about only 1 Bay, 1-2 Tides and shortly Proteus active?
Really can’t understand why Proteus and Stirling Castle were RFA badged when it already had multiple vessels laid up! Is it because the RN’s manpower situation is also terrible?
Feels like the RFA is circling the drain and Labour have little interest in trying to save it.
CSG 2025 may be going ahead, but if the next SDSR abandons any East of Suez aspirations in favour of a NATO focus it’ll be a perfect framework for arguing that replenishment is no longer required.
Please stop regurgitating ‘The East of Suez’ commentary it is spread by some military journalists, politicians and others who seem to believe we have some huge force East of Suez. It simply doesn’t exist!
We periodically intend to send a token force centred on a carrier but otherwise it is a couple OPVs, 1 frigate, 1 RFA and two MCMs in the Gulf.
The LRG concept is sound but we cannot generate 2 and it has no meaningful aviation support. There are also no escorts available and with no LPDs and 1 Bays it is dead.
This directly impacts our ability to support NATO on the northern flank.
If we have no replenishment vessels then how do we support FOST another important NATO support function provided by the U.K. This loss of capability will also significantly reduce our ability to support and sustain our Frigates in the high north along with our NATO flagship carrier.
This is not about East of Suez but the reduction of the RN to a token force with no coherent force structure.
2019 onwards with Johnson the successive Tory governments talked about ‘Global Britain’, deploying T31’s to the Indo-Pacific permanently, the CSG periodically, mooted the idea of opening new forward base facilities, so on and so on.
So I agree none of this exists or is likely to, but it’s not me talking it up!
They also sold Fort Victoria and made it impossible to achieve this.
I would suggest that the “Northern Flank” thing has gone away. Now that the Swedes and Finns are in NATO, a few hundred booties turning up in Norway (even if they get there, as their transit by sea is likely to be opposed, so we would probably fly them) won’t make any meaningful difference. This may end up being the excuse to dispense with the current LPDs and possibly their replacements.
The RM and support units are highly regarded by the Swedes and the Finns because of the amphibious capability they provide. The Finns are very aware of the number of Islands they have to defend and this requires units that are mobile in this type of environment. Airlift on its own is insufficient to do this.
The RM have spent at least the last two years practicing this type of reinforcement and support with the Bays and Albion.
That MRSS ships are planned suggests this flexibility is still required and to unilaterally withdraw this capability just as this theatre has grown in size would send a very poor message to NATO.
I think you of course could be right but it would be an excuse and not a reason to dispense with our remaining amphibious capability.
Mac and SJB1968
To add to what has, quite rightly, been said directly above:
And, as I have said before, those new RN ships which are to be build under the new MRSS progamme need be “Arctic certified” – which is a “pretty onerous” set of naval architecture / ship design criteria for anybody to work to….
regards Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
The basing of the RM is largely down to WW2 with both 40 and 42 in camps established during that time. Given that neither of these are now not earmarked for the Northern flank it does only leave Arbroath based 45 to deploy. However, as you are obviously aware the support units are largely Devon based.
The shipping and support helicopters are all south west based whilst the U.K.s’ principal location for air transport is not far away at Brize Norton so in many ways it is not as nonsensical as you might think.
You would also find if you tried to move any of the units to Scotland it would become even harder to retain personnel.
Of course I might be biased as a Devonian with friends and family in the RN/RM’s going back to WW2.
The comments about a few hundred bootnecks not making a great deal difference is understandable but I would argue no less so than the British Army’s planned 140 MBTs being deployed to mainland Europe.
I have come to the conclusion if we are not prepared to fund a bigger military we should look to use the budget very differently with an emphasis on the maritime and north rather than western and central Europe.
I would advocate a dedicated Army Brigade for this theatre along with a properly reconstituted and enlarged 3 Cdo Brigade. All with supporting sea and airborne lift. That would make a real difference and worry the Russians.
The remaining Army units to be deployed only as reinforcements to
western and central Europe
The rest of the budget would be spent on the RN and RAF because it is at sea and in the air where we are most vulnerable on our little Island.
SJB1968
All in all, you have made a very sensible set of very-well-considered comments..
Thus, as is quite-usual here on Navy Lookout, once again I find myself agreeing with the vast majority of what you have just said.
Focusing a core Army unit – ideally one at brigade strength and with Ajax / Boxer armour – must be the way to go foward to support our Viking alies. (i.e. the RN and the Bootnecks organise the landing ground: then the squaddies can drive off and cause mayhem, all in a region where Mr P least expects them to arrive)..
….and, as you probably guessed, I was being a tiny weeny little bit sarcastic with my comments about much of the RMC basing being in the South West.
It does need to be near the grey-painted cruise liners…. .
—————–
However there is one “little exception” ……your comment about the Arbroath based RMC unit: 45.
Their basing in Arbroath is definitely a relic of the 1970’s. That happened when the unit was orginally deployed up there to be specifically dedicated to protect the then-new North Sea oil rigs, pipelines and refineries etc.
It was located there as a defence against both nation-state attacks (esp Spetnaz) and also to deter terrorist incidents.
Back in those days, all of our military and naval helicoptors only had “very short legs”: so the RMC base had to be located right on the east coast of Scotland: so their whirly-birds were able to reach the rigs..
That core requirement / capability is now (almost) history…
——————-
Therefore, if I was in charge of the bootnecks today, I would be asking the MOD to move the permenant base of 45 from Arboroth to Kinloss.
That very short move has a number of advantages over their present east coast base. It would put a key “spearhead” unit;
However that type of basing – putting a key RMC spearhead unit in a geographical location that is ideal for both regular training and especially for generating a very fast response for a key military capability – would frankly require a change to “traditional MOD mindset”
So, in case of a urgent operational requirement to “send in the marines” – one would only need to:
However, the flaw in my logic is that loading up a RAF transport plane anywhere except at RAF Carterton wouild – completely and utterly and probably terminally – bugger up all of the MOD’s and Crabb’s paperwork.
Regards Peter (Irate Taxpayer).
This did not age well 🙂
This is very worrying indeed . The government need to get a grip on the manpower situation to make it a more attractive option as a career , maybe encouraging sailors leaving the RN to sign up for a period of time . It does highlight once again the lack of funding for our armed forces and support services . Wholly at the feet of the government methinks
Yes.. this is defiantly an option but the RFA seem to be dragging their heels ..
Currently the RFA dont see any previous RN service as a valid qualification. Making fully trained up sailors and RN senior rates take out the pointless apprentice scheme the RFA currently operate.. a scheme that is not fit for purpose might I add.
Too many old school attitudes remain both at RFA command and throughout the current fleet.
I have worked with many very capable ex RN CPOs and POs (who have joined the RFA) that have to start again as an AB.. Shocking waste of experience and skills..
Hmm I’ll see how this develops …..yet another capability gap….personally im a labour voter….I could never vote for that other lot….Genuine Jennerick ….that man was bullied at skool….moving on lets not forget the slicing of capabilities in 2010…as I said we will see how this pans out shame the Admiral is a yes man …still bigger picture small porthole as they say
It’s scandalous what has become of our once mighty navy. Heads should roll, but as here are no votes in defence, it just adds more weight to further cuts. If we could capture the power of previous matelots spinning in their graves, we would be energy independent forever!
Absolutely gutted that the RFA has come to this. I joined them as a cadet in 1989. Ever since they introduced the x factor payment for deck officers back in the day, all the engineers left. Such poor management knowing that the commercial sector pay so much more. RIP
Our navy is a joke, we can’t even support one carrier at sea…
I really cannot understand this whole thing we need the RFA for RN assistance wherever the navy goes if all the crew members were on their ships it still wouldn’t be a wage rise like Labour gave the poor underpaid train drivers (and I know what their getting ) it shows how rail unions bosses are in the top position with Labour the RFA and our military should also get a good pay rise. The RN are likely going to need every ship they have and very quickly if China kicks off with America their going to out numbered by the Chinese & will need help and Putin’s navy has already got Submarines a warships in the Atlantic out numbering NATO especially our navy. Someone needs to get their thumbs out of their arses in the MOD and the Government
Given it to train drivers and junior doctors who really Don’t do anything more than sit on their ass all day long but they don’t think that people who can be putting their lives on the line deserve more pay .
Disgusting
The Tories provided 18% CPI inflation over 22,23,24(est) . What do you expect people to do , take a pay cut?
The Covid aftermath and Ukraine war provided 18% CPI inflation etc etc.
But you knew that anyway.
Really So these two had no part in financial meltdown ?
Lets look at a neighbours CPI – not ideal but a rough comparison
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/fra/france/inflation-rate-cpi
Internet is a wonderful thing , but can you find 18% number in those for France ?
Im sure you wouldnt say something false deliberately so it seems you had no idea
If you think direct comparisons between countries with different economies are of relevance, I have a bridge to sell you. If you think the short-lived effects of Truss/Kwarteng (primarily on bond markets) were more important to CPI than the huge increases in material demand caused by post-covid expansion or the massive increases in energy and food costs caused by the Ukraine war, then I have a magic beanstalk to sell you.
Junior doctors still ended up having pay 20% below inflation since 2008 after their rise
.
Perhaps Zelensky could return someof the £billions back to the UK, oh sorry it’s all been laundered and has disappeared lol 😂
Back under your bridge, vatnik. We don’t need your sort here
Back in the day the RFA ship was a easier to run. I was a merchant Navy Stewart.
On RFA Tidepool and RFA Black Rover.
Seems nowadays RFA crew I’m up more like Royal Navy then merchant navy.
But like all jobs nowadays I want you to do more and more for less and have so many different certificates. I just had my life boat certificate and catering training.
Perhaps if just occasionally the odd UK government tried solving one of the many, many problems crippling UK Defence there might actually be fewer problems to deal with tomorrow. The issue of the lousy state of RFA pay is hardly an insurmountable one.
The way things are going with the RFA they won’t be deploying no further than Spit Head, the governments have a lot to answer for.
Paul
As the “Seaforth Docks” quoted in this article are in the Port of Liverpool; geograhically they are located a very long way north of the WGMSS (note 1)
Thus I very much doubt that any RFA ship will be travelling as far south as Spitheadnot anytime anytime soon…..
All in all, and as you quite rightly say, this is a rather sad state of affairs; especially when there are two very big wars going on, both of which are on Europe’s eastern borders)….
regards Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Notee 1. WGMSS – Watford Gap Motorway Service Station
By the way the last RAS FT Vic conducted was a pump-over with Tidesurge on the 12 Feb 2022.
“anytime soon”, for crying out loud.
Reading this makes you weep!
The establishment have committed high treason against the British people with this continuing inaction. It is beyond a scandal.
Mike
Stop Press:
These RFA problems are front page news in the Daily Torygraph today.
So the RN gets media coverage = for all of the wrong reasons !
Unfortunately
regards Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
DELETE: trimaran hull research vessel TRITION alongside in Portland
INSERTE: trimaran hull research vessel TRITON alongside in Portland
https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/trimaran/
Wars are won by logistics and we don’t have any.