A recent article in the Sunday Times revealed more details about Russian undersea activities directed against UK interests. Here we look in more detail at the specific threats and how RFA Proteus and the Royal Navy are gradually improving seabed warfare (SBW) capabilities.
Subsea espionage intensifies
The RN has discovered Russian surveillance devices hidden in UK waters. These sensors, some of which were recovered after washing ashore while others were detected by RN vessels, are suspected of being part of an intelligence-gathering effort targeting the Vanguard class SSBNs. The location of these discoveries has not been publicised but the boats transiting in and out of the Firth of Clyde are most vulnerable to detection in this area. The RN has now switched to autonomous or minimally crewed boats to conduct regular route surveys. By deploying side scan sonars to frequently map the seabed in high resolution, any objects not recorded in previous surveys are obvious and can be promptly investigated.
This is form of spying not entirely new as it is believed the Soviet Navy routinely deployed submarines for intelligence-gathering operations and attempted to lay underwater acoustic sensors near NATO naval facilities, cables and strategic maritime chokepoints. NATO forces performed similar missions. As an example, In 1971 the US Navy and CIA began operation Ivy Bells, laying a recording device on a communications cable linking Russian naval bases in the Sea of Okhotsk.
Uncrewed Underwater Vehicle technology has made such intrusions far easier. Since 2020, Russian UUVs have been detected in proximity to deep-sea communication cables in the North Atlantic and adjacent seas. These UUVs are remotely operated and were deployed from long range. It is clear they were attempting to interfere with, or gain intelligence from, subsea data infrastructure although so far, there is no public evidence that any attempt to compromise UK cables has succeeded. Less well-publicised is the existence of military sub-sea cables vital to NATO operations around the world. This includes cables linking seabed ASW sensor arrays to data processing centres ashore which are prime targets for Russian interference.
While media attention has often focused on the Russian intelligence-gathering surface vessels such as the Yantar, which are known to operate close to NATO cables and seabed infrastructure, this is only part of a much broader threat. Although the voyage of Yantar prompted a more assertive response when she detoured over cables in the Irish Sea in November 2024, the greater concern is the deeper waters beyond the continental shelf. It is much easier to police waters close to home than detect and deter activity in the deep ocean where Russia can covertly deploy specialised nuclear-powered submarines, mother ships to small submersibles.
There is also a strong suspicion that superyachts owned by Russian oligarchs have been used as platforms for undersea reconnaissance. Several are equipped with moon pools in the centre of the hull that allow the discreet launch and recovery of submersibles, potentially offering another covert method to conduct surveillance or deliver seabed sensors.
Tentative SBW steps
Proteus, the UK’s first Multi-Role Ocean Surveillance Ship (MROS) was purchased in January 2023. Despite the ‘rapid procurement’, getting her into service has taken more than two years but she is now operational. Once into her stride, it is planned she will be deployed for up to 330 days a year. The RFA crew rotate every 4 months or so but a shortage of qualified personnel could limit this. Under Navy Command direction, the RFA has to decide which of the 5 or 6 vessels that it can find crews for will remain active. Currently, it appears Proteus is being prioritised over the Bay-class vessels.
Early operations are developmental trials are already underway including closing with the Russian seabed spy ship Yantar in the Irish Sea last year. She also conducted operations off Norway (where she was originally built) in February and docked in Bodø hosting the Defence Secretary, John Healy and his Norwegian counterpart. Proteus was operating again in the Irish Sea in March and embarked RN specialists for the first time. These personnel came from X-Ray Squadron of the Mine-Hunting and Threat Exploitation Group (MTXG) and members of the Diving Threat Exploitation Group (DTXG).
The MoD stated that Proteus would “participate in exercises in the Baltic Sea” following the visit to Norway, possibly joining the NATO Baltic Sentry policing mission estabished in January. However, the trip to the Baltic has not yet materialised and at the time of writing, she has returned to the North Sea and is alongside at Kirkwall Harbour in the Orkneys.

RFA Proteus carries several advanced underwater vehicles as part of its threat detection and mitigation capability. The newest of the toys is the AEUK SeaCat, a 3-metre-long UUV with a high-resolution side scan sonar array. AEUK were awarded a £32m contract in 2022 for this system that was initially focused on mine countermeasures but can also be deployed in seabed warfare operations. SeaCat can operate at depths of up to 300 meters for up to 24 hours. It is up to 6 times more efficient at locating underwater objects than traditional shipboard mine-hunting sonars.
Complementing the SeaCat is the larger Gavia UUV, capable of diving to 1,000 metres, able to reach the deepest parts of the majority of the UK’s surrounding waters. For more complex tasks such the collection of evidence, recovery of equipment or underwater repairs, Proteus can also deploy the Defender, a remotely operated vehicle (ROV) that can be equipped with robotic arms and tools. DSTL Porton Down recently developed new manipulator arms for this system, capable of delivering and placing shaped charges to neutralise underwater threats, and this was tested in recent exercises off Norway.
Proteus has a large moon pool in the centre of the aft deck, this allows UUVs or ROVs to be lowered to the seabed directly below the ship and offers sheltered conditions protected from wind, waves and spray, reducing motion impact during delicate operations. The moon pool is normally covered by a heavy deck hatch but when the pool is in use, the hatch is lifted by the 120-tonne crane into a dedicated storage crib on the port side
For work in very deep water, up to 4,000m the MoD Salvage & Marine Operations (SALMO) team has acquired the FET Perry XLX-C heavy-duty ROV with manipulator arms for working on seabed objects. This kind of work requires specialist operators and a dedicated launch and recovery system. To accommodate heavier vehicles such as this, Proteus has been fitted with a luffing A-frame on her starboard side – the frame can be tilted, or ‘luffed’, to deploy the ROV over the side.


Stepping up
Discussions are now ongoing about acquiring a second vessel to complement Proteus. MROS(2) had originally been planned as a bespoke design built in the UK, to serve jointly as a replacement for the ocean survey vessel HMS Scott with additional seabed warfare capabilities. However, the urgency and scale of the risk to UK infrastructure suggests purchasing another second-hand vessel (or vessels) would still be a quicker way to address the problem, despite the ponderous entry into service of Proteus.
The renewed threat to subsea infrastructure has prompted some in the RN to question whether the UK should restore its mine-laying capability, something it has not possessed since the Cold War. The last British sea mines were dismantled in 1992 due to ethical concerns and the perception they were obsolete. However, the strategic context has changed.
In March 2025, Denmark announced the procurement of several hundred naval mines for delivery between 2027-29. Their aim is to bolster its defence of internal waters and support NATO’s collective deterrence posture. Australia also recently committed $500 million to acquire modern naval mines to defend its coasts from potential Chinese incursions. Several Baltic states, including Poland, have also signalled their intention to exit international treaties banning anti-personnel and anti-ship mines. Although no official proposal has been tabled within the current UK SDR, discussions within the RN suggest that defensive minefields could play a role in protecting key maritime approaches and infrastructure from enemy submarines and uncrewed intrusions.
There have been at least 11 instances of damage to subsea infrastructure in the Baltic Sea, the discovery of covert sensors laid on the seabed close to the UK and Russian UUVs found near undersea cables. These are just recent incidents in the public domain but the full scale of this activity is likely much greater than has been revealed so far. This demonstrates that the potential threat that has been talked about for some years is materialised into something very real.
There is a clear need to further expand the RN’s seabed warfare capabilities. The technology and platforms already exist, and in many ways, it is easier to scale up SBW capabilities rapidly than to increase ASW strength or respond to other more high-end threats. The obstacles for the RN are generally prosaic: obtaining the funding, developing the CONOPS for this new battlespace and ensuring there is enough SQEP to crew commercially-derived platforms with niche skills such as marine engineers, dynamic positioning-qualified officers and ROV operators.

I think seabed warfare is increasingly important, but I do think this is an area where ‘national resilience’ and partnership with industry has great value. The Naval Service can’t conceivably do it all alone, one MROS or two is still a drop in the bucket compared to the vast network of undersea cables and pipelines out to waters >1,000m or more.
With hostile actors able to interfere with infrastructure using UUV’s over a huge area, and having plenty of time to do so in peace (laying mines, breaking if they want, physically hacking into data etc.) you have a huge soft target to cover, and one that needs frequent checks as a mitigation. I’m pretty doubtful on catching attackers ‘in the act’.
The only way I can see to do this is to leverage industry, there’s a lot of (nearly total) overlap between Proteus’ equipment and commercial survey. The tens of thousands of miles of infrastructure can’t be swept by her single Gavia/SeaCat with any regularity. I think that the owners and operators of infrastructure should be encouraged to increase the frequency of inspections (sometimes up from virtually never!), possibly by leveraging permit/lease conditions and the Crown Estate requirements. Maybe with some funding carrot, or stick of consequences should poorly checked cables or pipelines fail. A lot of infrastructure is periodically checked anyway (especially pipelines, less so cables), and the frequency could/should be increased.
I also think that cable burial requirements should potentially be examined, while ‘external aggression’ whether accidental or not is a factor in determining burial, clearly there’s lots of vulnerability, it’s hard to bury a cable deep enough to protect against a big ship anchor or intentional damage, but more burial/armoring/mattressing/concrete should be looked at.
We don’t expect the army to provide direct physical protection on a day-to-day basis of hospitals, power stations or other critical infrastructure, why expect the Navy to provide it all for undersea cables and pipelines?
I’ve worked on a couple of Proteus-like subsea intervention ships (geophysicist by background) and with Ocean Infinity and other UUV-using survey players. There’s plenty of capability out there, maybe a model where the bulk of search/survey/inspection is commercial and Proteus able to be called in when something suspicious is found would be worth examining. Neighbourhood watch/Security guards calling the police rather than a bobby on every cable corner.
This point made exactly in recent HoC Defence Select Committee. MoD is looking at the Norwegian model where apparently industry plays a much more active part in safeguarding of subsea infrastructure. Industry are the experts and have far more capacity – they put it all there in the first place.
Excellent post! 👍 Wonder whether it could be productive to forward a version of this to select MPs and/or SDR committee? At one time, believe they were actively soliciting input from the public.
Really good post.
The Norwegian model has got a lot going for it. That said RN has got to have capacity to deal with the alerts generated by the private monitoring.
“Proteus called in when something suspicious is found” too little, too late.
Russian Baltic fleet will not be deterred if Putin decides to “punish” UK via destruction of pipe-lines & cables. Defeat of Putin in Ukraine best “defence” for UK.
Why must so many idiots put Military details,what ever that may be to the general public.Its not a “Need to know..memory’s of 1982…..🙄
All
I am still completely baffled as to why the “very similar” Striling Castle cannot also be used for seabed surveys: i.e. using the same type of ROV’s as Proteus
does anybody know why? (or why not?)
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Well for one it doesn’t have a moon pool?
Also no crew
I think the no crew bit is key. It’ll take years for the RFA to rebuild. With the choices available to UK merchant mariners it’ll be a while before meany of them choose the RFA.
Doesn’t need a moonpool or ROV
So a ship that is being used to trial MCM systems doesn’t need a moonpool or ROV? Well most of these new systems are based on ROV for obvious reasons. And a moonpool is easier for launching kit than going over the side. So……………….
For the seabed surveys in question you really don’t want an ROV, and UUV/AUV really don’t want to be launched out of a moonpool anyway, ideally a LARS or side A-frame.
Stirling Castle could pretty easily be configured for seabed surveys, if desired.
While very similar core vessels the Stirling Castle on-board systems and crew are very different.
Mission systems and equipment, I know what you mean though, you would of thought
No crews
STCL is not built with that in mind she was originally a rig support ship and does have the same capacity to run ROV’s off her side or the configuration to do so, she was mainly purchased for her crane to operate with the Mine Warfare Types to launch their kit over the side or off the back.
If you’d need to modify her heavily to Run ROVs as well as alter her guts.
Hugo, WIZ, Otterman, Johan and John
I must now admit that (very lazily) = I had automtically assumed that Sterling Castle did have a moonpool!
That type of basic mistake is what happens when one read the b**s**t from DES
—–
Here is what the top bloke in DES said publically at the time:
Andy Lapsley, DE&S Mine Hunting Capability (MHC) Team Leader, said:
so, that in turn leads to the bleeding obvious question =
Obviously
Peter (Irate Txpayer)
Ah, seabed warfare—such a tantalizing field. Having served aboard the HMS Iron Duke (or Dukey, as we affectionately called her), I’ve developed a keen appreciation for the delicate balance of subtlety and power beneath the waves. With the Proteus now in the mix, it seems the Royal Navy is taking that balance to new depths. Deploying systems like the SeaCat and the Defender ROV, she’s proving adept at handling even the most covert of threats—leaving the Russians to squirm as they realize their efforts to tamper with our underwater infrastructure are quickly detected.
The moon pool, a perfect little hideaway for operations, adds a layer of sophistication to what is already a highly refined process. It’s not just about getting down to the depths—it’s about making sure the enemy is thoroughly searched and left with nothing but their soggy dreams. Proteus is positioning itself as the predator in this game of undersea cat-and-mouse.
As the Royal Navy continues to build its seabed warfare capabilities, it’s clear: this is no longer a case of reactive measures; we’re in control, setting the terms of engagement. The waters may be murky, but with Proteus at the helm, it’s clear we know exactly what’s lurking beneath. Keep up the great work, lads—just make sure we don’t leave any Russian surprises unexamined.
SIS and GCHQ should thank them for doing SIGINT work.
Sorry for maybe a silly question, but if this up- top helipad is not being used could they bring it down and incorporate more into re-worked upper bow forward structure? I can’t imagine the pad being used in very high sea states though i could be very wrong on that?
The helipad isn’t rated for military helicopters, but that I don’t think that means it not useable/ useful. For a medical emergency someone could still evacuated by an air ambulance.
Also with CSG pioneering vertrep using drones, it may be useful for some resupply operations.
Does it not block the navigator’s sight?
Wasn’t a problem when it was in civilian service. In fact its position is quite common on offshore support vessels as it leaves the stern free.
Not quite getting this — civil helicopter standards are more flexible than military ones?
The flight deck is usable by civil flights / air ambulances.
Then what about the police / coastguard?
Surely the wrong way round — military standards should allow it to operate where civil flights would not be allowed / do not have the capabilities.
What next — the army going off to war with a police escort?
I have a feeling it’s less to do with standards and more to do with weight of military as opposed to civvie, but I may be wrong.
Also, military helicopters tend to carry things that go bang and need to be transferred to and from the magazine safely, etc. That helipad perched on the bow doesn’t look somewhere to lug a bunch of high explosive to.
Couple of gaps in the argument …
We are happy to have VLS tubes close to the bridge on other ships — in fact we shout hurrah when there is a possibility they might be getting installed — so not sure why we cant organise a lift to get things that go bang to a flight deck above the bridge.
Plus most oil related ships have pretty good fire fighting equipment.
2 very powerful water cannon at least.
However fully active flight deck is not the issue — the issue is the inability of military helicopters to use the flight deck at all. Seems a bit of a waste / a tactical mistake that does not show the services in a good light. As in being fully engaged with the world around them.
I fear we can’t use it because the MAA don’t have a policy on them and are too proud to ask the CAA for a copy of theirs.
No completely wrong.
It’s a weight issue, as explained in a Navy Lookup article not long after it was bought from civilian service. The helipad max weight is fine for civilian helicopters but not for those used by the military.
Now the RN could spend money strengthening it to take more weight, but they obviously don’t think it a priority given the ships role. They could also spend money to remove it, but it’s not doing any harm being there. So rather than waste money the RN left it there, as it is.
But feel free to ignore Occam’s razor, and the simple facts, and spend your time hypothesising conspiracy theories. Just be aware that posting them makes you look silly.
Maybe the MOD / RN needs top put their helicopters on a diet?
Operational flexibility points to having a helicopter deck being useful.
And surely the all Merlin fleet vibe is history?
300% cost gap looms large again.
More daft comments. 🤦🏻♂️
As you seem to think the magic tree is in season why not add a Sea Ceptre mushroom farm and maybe a 15inch gun turret too…
You’re looking way too deep into it, it’s not used because military helicopters are too heavy to land on it, it’s not certified for those kind of weights, removing it would alter the ships stability, it’s easier just keeping it on there.
It’s a helicopter deck, it can be used by helicopters up to a certain weight, and it was used during its civilian service.
But the UK’s military helicopters exceed that weight limit. So it can’t be used by them.
🤷🏻♂️
Helicopter deck is 22M diameter / 12.8T limit.
The RN all Merlin vibe lives on.
Not good.
The line diagram shows that the flight deck is 20m and rated for to 12.8 tons so will easily take a Panther/Dauphin (used by FOST) or Lynx/Wildcat. An ASW Merlin comes in at about 14 tons so that’s out. If they need to use it they will.
Quick mention of the beauty of angle iron engineering — the flight deck is a thing of beauty built at £5K per tonne of worked steel.
More of this please.
Also this platform / vessel architecture for the long lost hospital ship requirement.
Huge flat deck to place a containerised hospital on top of.
What was the hospital spec we were working to 20 years ago?
100 beds / 20 high dependency beds / 5 operating rooms / X ray stuff.
2000m2 all in?
RFA Argus is the Primary Casualty Receiving Ship. It has a 100 bed hospital, ICU, X-Ray and CT Scan facilities.
Its large deck has 3 landing spaces and can accommodate helicopters up to the size of a Chinook, plus an aircraft lift and hanger.
Have I mentioned Google previously?…
Argus is a grade A bodge because UK MIC couldn’t come up with an effective / efficient design for a brand new PCR ship — UK MIC got all excited / economy left the room and they fell into the trough and drowned if my memory serves me correctly.
Consequently I was looking for the spec we were working to for that ship.
Argus is 44 years old with a very mixed range of uses and capabilities.
She has served us well but she is nowhere near what we need.
Consequently a new build should be the target along with reducing the navigation crew by 67%.
So again — any info on the PCR ship project of 10/20 years ago would be appreciated.
Real estate game that needs to be priced as such.
Any info on why a Bay based solution was not acceptable will get brownie points.
Oh yes a new build would be lovely… which of the Type 26s do you plan to cancel to pay for it?…
While Argus is old (though younger than some B52s) and a conversion, she’s still a vast improvement over your bodge of having a Proteus style helipad and having patients treated in shipping containers! 🤦🏻♂️
So why should a new build cost such ridiculous amounts of money?
The new PCR ship requirement is just a real estate game with a hull to keep the water out — everything else is MOD ego tripping and contractor margin.
Both of which we can’t afford at the moment.
You have been conditioned to accept MOD build economics.
No matter how ridiculous they are / UK MIC friendly they are with an artisan build pace.
Which in today’s world are 400% of the cost they should be.
Evidence everyday in the fields of the Ukraine.
For the record the helipad would be on top of the hospital block.
The hospital block would sit on the huge expanse of deck at the back.
The 150 tonne crane would be on E-bay to help pay for it.
a) Ships are expensive, way more than your Ford Capri cost
b) Top-end medical equipment is expensive
c) So compared to Argus that can have 6 helicopters on deck offloading casualties, you’d have a single helipad on top of the shipping containers
d) How do you get the casualties from this helipad down to the hospital? Argus has a huge spiral ramp which trolleys can be wheeled down
e) Wartime priorities are very different to peacetime priorities. Comparing what is acceptable on the ground in Ukraine to the UK is a ridiculous argument.
f) Sell “the crane on eBay”… yeah that just about says it all 🤦🏻♂️
Do we have 6 helicopters available …
Ships are expensive — yes but COTS offers value.
There is a reason why developing countries go into shipbuilding before they do Big Auto — it is a lot simpler / easier / achievable.
Medical equipment costs — they did not sink the PCR ship project. The price of the ship itself sunk the project.
Helicopters numbers / arrangements — this is not the Tory version of the NHS with ambulances waiting outside to unload.
Proteus is big / the design can be lengthened so more rotors on deck.
Patient transfer — many options / you know like lifts.
Couple going spare seemingly on the PoW.
Main deck level flight deck out the back would be the simplest solution.
Ukraine war build economics — that is the future.
We supply dear / UK and Euro MIC rates with margins a plenty.
Russia builds at pace / at cost / at efficient levels. Margins are set at desperation levels.
We have had 30 years of Dubai civil engineering build costs and didn’t take the hint
Only the terminally stupid will ignore these gaps.
Crane on EBay — banter dear boy banter.
I thought was part of the forces / services game?
RFA Argus — can it land six helicopters at the one time or can it land 3?
You seem to be internally conflicted.
Huge flat deck to place a containerised hospital on top of.
Yes and pity the poor patient who is abed on a working deck of one of those.
Do you know where the ‘hospital’ is in the Argus? Right at the the bottom of the ship amidships where there is the least movement. There is a fantastic spiral ramp from the flight deck down to the bottom of the ship. Quite a climb back up.
You really are going after the prize for the stupidest comment this year aren’t you? Young Duker has some competition.
Blinkered / living in the past / not open to new ideas.
Enough about Brexit — lets talk new ships for the RFA.
Proteus / AHTS vessel architecture — built for steady work in rough seas.
Large flat deck — 10T / m2 spec indeed — 2.5M above the waterline.
Again steady working platform built in from the off.
Cheap / commodity / real world build economics.
Argus / containership hull architecture — bodge after bodge after bodge.
Did a pretty good job but 44 years old / knackered.
Currently slumming it with the marines.
Hospital is currently fresh air.
Spiral ramp to the bottom of the ship — not good for warfare robustness / resilience.
Fair enough as she is a big unit with lots of angle iron and air.
But a challenge to evacuate if things start to go wrong.
Especially with its workload and attendant transport issues.
Least movement — critical for surgery / less so for ward beds.
Above the main deck — might need some pitch / heave control.
If COTS can do this for a 150 tonne crane …
Maybe COTS can do this for an operating theatre.
PCR ship 2010’s project — as noted earlier it would be interesting to know the spec / the design ideas / the nuggets that were driving the design and the cost.
Bay class vessel architecture vs AHTS vessel architecture vs UK MIC hobby horse.
You know the one we cannot afford.
All up against the RFA Argus that is a triumph of bodge engineering.
Much of my musing on the topic of ‘naval warfare’ has been spent on the topic of civilian hulls used for security and auxiliary taskings. From Eire’s Muirchú to the Jervis Bay to the trawlers of the Sparrow’s Nest the conversion work for the Falklands to Maersk AFSB to MV Asterix to yes the RFA and my beloved Argus and most points in between I have looked at everything from yachts to liners. The difference between me and you is I spent time learning how ships are screwed together, how they work, and how the crews that man them work. You are just pulling figures from the air with no rhyme or reason.
No — you do not know how to put ships together you know how to bodge them to suit what particular emergency you are tasked with.
Expert in the marine uses of concrete but not ship design.
There is a difference and you might want to work on that gap.
Numbers out the air are all we have as their is a 300% gap between current MOD cost economics and real world global standards.
Next gen PCR ship — might be oil industry hull architecture or it could have containership hull architecture but it needs to be affordable.
RFA Argus is a top quality bodge but we can do better unless you have been in a slow decline professionally since 1985.
Foudre, built for what Argus does
Not a looker is she?
Very trad and you can see the stretch marks.
Well deck is very long — 70% of waterline — so vehicle transport is limited.
All in all very 1942 design vibe plus a flight deck.
Does it have a sizable hospital onboard?
AHTS vessel architecture can provide the size / scale no problem.
The well deck would be a much tougher issue.
However there may be other ways of launching stull out the back.
Shoving an LCM off the end and then adding the tank.
As against flooding the well deck and floating the loaded LCM out.
Do we have any plans to introduce a new range of high performance LCMs?
Fat Bloke On Tour
It had a lenghty conversion from a commercial container ship to become an aviation training ship – designed so as to allow realistic training for all types of avaition crews, mainly on Harriers and whirrybirds, in very realistic conditions (ie out at sea
(remember the days of the the RN doing that reguarly……!!!!)
Thus, the mid 1980’s plan was to use Argus for aviation training (instead of the Invincible Class) and thus make the Invincibles even more operationally effective
That is why the stern deck design of Argus just after its first 1980’s conversion – especially the deck lifts etc – very closely mirrors the Invincibles.
———
Then Gulf War One “just sort of happened” – mainly because “Six” had failed to notice a huge build up of tanks on the Kuwaiti border
(PS does that incompetence sound familiar in Feb 2022?)
—————–
One of very very many UK CTC’s was as follows:
…….The Army’s 1980’s era field hospitals had been designed to deal with WMD’s (including chemical weapons)
……..however only for a hot war in Europe
Thus, in Arabia, they could not have coped with mass casualties from enemy WMD’s – simply because in very warm climates one had to keep the Army’s field hospital’s doors open …so as to keep the hospital cool in the desert
= which is frankly not a great lot of use when the enemy you are facing (Saddam H and his nasty sidekick called Chemical Ali) had WMD’s called chemical weapons = and had already used them repeatedly on its own citizens over the past decade (1980-90)
Thus Gulf War One was the completely the wrong type of Hot War for the British Army to cope with….
………so they asked for help from the Royal Navy
( Yep…… the Army Dress Committee were that desperate !!)
——————————
Thus, in one hell of a hurry, RFA aviation training ship Argus was converted to be a Primary Casualty Receiving Ship.
Such a high priority programme that the new four letter TLA was invented especially y for it…
Thus PCRS was known in the trade as a “bodge job”
Indeed so unpleasent was Argus to live abord during GW1 that UK military head honcho General (Sir) Peter De La Billiere notes just how unpleasent it was to live on (in his own autobiography).
Apparently it was even worse than tenting in the desert
…mainly becauise that conversion had left the old air-conditioning system fitted…
However, due to the proper use of deterence (note 1), Argus was never used for mass casualties
Thus, ever since Argus has been the four letter TLA of the PCRS
: ……despite never ever being properly designed for the job
…..and thus being adapted and coverted a few times since
Some of the major disadvantages of Argus’s present configuration are the huge amount of space used by those deep / long ramps and also also the sheer difficulty of evacuating immobile patients from intensive care wards up into the lifeboats
————————-
What I would add in relation to any possible replacement(s) for Argus, is that things have moved on “quite a bit” since the 1990’s
… in particular those more modern cruise liner thingies now have something called roll stabilisers fitted
These work – a bit little on a child’s peddle bike – to stop the modern cruise ship rolling fom side to side.
These stabilisers have three great operational advantages:
Thus on any future big RN ship equipped with a hospital bay (or two) – it should be very easily possible to have the hospital wards / bays both;
……all without requiring even more intensive care beds just for sea-sickness
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Liners were often converted in hospital ship, like Uganda was in Gibraltar during the beginning of Falklans War, with survey ships Hecla, Hydra and Berald as ambulance ships.
Herald, not Berald, and Falklands, not Falklans
Little Froggy
Noted and agreed
However those 1982 era hospital ships were “rush job” conversions.
In all three cases, the key issue when they were actually in service was getting severly injured casulties onto and off the ships: especially by helicoptor(s)
Frankly, in many cases, they were not real hospital ships: they were used as ambulance ships.
So in many cases, the ships did little more except to transport the wounded patients to the nearest shoreside hospital (often Montevideo in neutral Uruguay)
Microsoft Word – RFA history 06 Hospital Ships.doc
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Medically things have moved on one hell of a lot since 1982.
Servicemen who would have been written off in 1982 as “beyond all help” have recently been, especially during Afganistan, saved and rebuilt
Today, wth any very severely wounded patient, properly considering how best to move them on and off a ship (and indeed, to and from any medical facility) is nowdays literally a matter of life and death
That is why a hell of lot of things now need to be rethought; especially about how UK naval and especially commando casualties are properly treated and best moved – and that total rethink is needed throughout all three of the UK armed services.
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Still do surgery in war zones. Its the long recovery that requires a shore hospital and any ongoing surgery
The Thatcher and Polaris on Saddam is too silly for words….Britain had its own nuclear armed RAF at the time.
Actually it was SHE who threatened chemical weapons .LOL
Margaret Thatcher suggested threatening Saddam with chemical weaponshttps://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40667031
Duker
Incorrect about the RAF.
Also incorrect about the Threat
Please look at this official US evaluation after the war; especially pages 3 and 5
Assessing the Nuclear Lessons of the First Gulf War from Project on Nuclear Issues: A Collection of Papers from the 2016 Nuclear Scholars Initiative and PONI Conference Series on JSTOR
Please note thaI, post-war, Iraqi’s nuclear weapons programme was found to be very advanced…..
= which is why a lot of people spent a lot of time and effort over the next decade dismantling that threat
————-
Then look at the offical RAF history
raf.mod.uk/what-we-do/centre-for-air-and-space-power-studies/aspr/apr-vol19-iss2-1-pdf/
Then, immedaitely after the end of Gulf War One; this debate in Parliament.
Please note the issue about the ongoing Iraqi nuclear weapons programme still being a threat is raised…..
Nuclear Deterrence – Hansard – UK Parliament
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
PS
Noted and agreed, too.
May be it depends on the theater?
Red Sea, Subsaharian Africa, Norway coast, Baltic and of course Pacific theaters need different means?
May be allies could be useful in some way?
do not see the point of this ship, the companies that own the under sea cables have the ships capable of dealing with damage to their cables, and the oil companies have similar capabilities for pipe lines. They should be doing this.
What can proteus do to stop a dragged anchor doing damage or even stop people placing underwater scanning devices on the sea bed in international waters.
The cable companies certainly should, and presumably do monitor for damage etc. Not to mention the RN can’t afford dozens of ships like Proteus to do this work.
But Proteus can scan the sea bed in sensitive areas, an obvious example, where our SSBNs transit when leaving for patrol. It’s not just damage to cables, the Russians have also been leaving surveillance devices behind while transiting though our waters.
RFA — currently 11 ships in the “active” fleet.
Seemingly paying out 1800 wages as we speak.
Not sure why we would be having issues manning all the RFA fleet?
Double crewing — OK.
Higher crew density — OK
50 instead of 25 is a possibility.
RN are seemingly also onboard to work the difficult stuff.
Consequently not sure that running 5 or 6 is credible given the numbers involved?
If we are inventing rules to make it difficult / impossible then the answer would be stop.
I understood proteus was to be a prototype vessel & that new builds would follow!(3),after lessons learnt
Is this still the case?
Sorry matey your getting confuse with Stirling Castle which was/is the first of its kind as MCM support vessels. Although those across the Channel have a way better idea about getting real warships build to do the role etc. The RN is falling behind again.
“The RN is falling behind again”
Scribes
Please Sir!
A correction to the grammar used in your last sentence. It should have read:
“The Royal Navy fell behind a very long while ago: and is still way behind today”
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
An in closed deployment bay is not the future of autonomous MCM, the systems will rapidly expand and the ship will be left outdated or constrained
As for helicopter pad that seems like a handy piece of kit to have and to uprate it to military spec on a new build should be ok. Just to throw a curve ball does anyone remember HMS CHALLENGER!
HMS CHALLENGER (K07) 1984-90 (7200t) Deep sea diving vessel & cable inspection (sub rescue).Sold to S,African interests despite interest from USN.
Nig e
The Editor has beaten you to it ……by a few years
Context and considerations – new multi-role research vessels for the UK | Navy Lookout
Much of what it tried to do remains top secret = mainly because it failed to work properly!.
So please also see this one
The fascinating story of HMS Challenger (K07) « Quotulatiousness
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
I seam to remember rumours that k07 might have been built for one specific job involving wwii gold/u235 any though ts?
Germans had almost zero U235. They had no infrastructure to refine it from the 238. Nor did they even know about plutonium… the experts knew it had to exist and they called this theoretical element eka-osmium !
Sorry!Duker,I was referring to radio active material in gen and not just u235..it could also be cold War era material! not just wwii as I said they were rumours.but K07 did have a bit of the Howard Hughs about it!
There was no yellowcake, ( the Germans had almost none of that either) the refined ore which is hardly radioactive at all.
Why would Britain go to all that trouble for a now commonly available product.
Have some memories of Japan sub bringing uranium to the Germany but not making it?
Fake memory. The U234- the U boat not the uranium ore- surfaced at end of war and was surrendered to USN. It was supposed to be going to Japan. yellow cake or gold part dubious. As the germans had very little yellowcake of their own, 500lbs total
Read the facts
https://dubm.de/mysterious-cargo-u-234/?lang=en
Duker
Or an even better source
New Details Emerge About Japan’s Wartime A-Bomb Program – Los Angeles Times
Please note the comment about the US Manhatten project then going on to use German uranium inside the US made bomb that was later dropped on Hiroshima!
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Did the Japanese have their own nuclear program?…
IF they had such a large quantity.