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Irate Taxpayer (Peter)

Editor

I made the comment about two years ago that the Bristh Army’s senior logistics team had decided – on the specific advice from the RN – that the Baltic would simply be to dangerous for the Point Class to navigate through, in either a grey zone or a hot war.

That is why all recent big Army exercises to the Baltic have been deployed via Sennelarger in Germany (see various posts last year: one of which included some very nice “tanks on trains” trainspotting photos)

…….. the threat level is still very high in this very confined waterway…

  • Thus the RN’s key planning assumption has obviously radically changed…
  • …..what is not explaned here is WHY?

Peter (Irate Taxpayer)

Jason

Calm down

Irate Taxpayer (Peter)

Jason

Quite simply, you are greatly underestimating the sheer difficulties of any navy protecting any merchant shipping which is transiting through any narrow and confined waterway -.i.e pretecting it against a range of modern threats

  • So next……
  • ….are you going to tell us that the narrow sea straights in the Red Sea, adjacent to tiny Yeman, are now “”Open for Business as Normal”….????

i.e. that the forces of “good” have defeated the evil YASA rocket launchers?

Peter (Irate Taxpayer)

YASA

  • The evil YASA is the Yemani Aeronautical and Space Admisistion
  • This is an Iranian (note 1) funded, Houthi run, organisation
  • I would describe YASA as terrorists…………however the media organisation which I (unwillingly) fund annually (i.e. the BBC), describes them as freedom fighters
  • YASA has also fired IRBM’s at the Israelites
  • YASA is thus the brains behind firing “dangerous” drones and ballistic missiles at RN warships:
  • ……which were shot down, at great expense, by “our lads” (PS – BZ lads)
  • thus YASA has closed the Red Sea to merchant shipping for many months
  • Accordingly, the world’s new Headmaster (note 2), The Donald, has recently threated to put YASA in a long detention after school (But only if they misbehave in class ever again)

Note 1

  • So, staying on the subject of Iran attacking the UK ….
  • Five of their state sponsored terrorists have just been arrested by “Met Plod” here in the UK.
  • However, once they have charged those terrorists…..
  • ….can I please ask that those Met Plod detectives now investigate who nicked my telly 33 years ago.
  • Because that very serious crime must be, by now, at the front of the Met’s queue of unsolved crimes…

Note 2

  • Pun intended…
Duker

Oh really ?
“I would describe YASA as terrorists…………however the media organisation which I (unwillingly) fund annually (i.e. the BBC), describes them as freedom fighters”

https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/middleeast/100000010137049/us-bombing-yemen-migrant-shelter.html
‘Videos and photos reveal remnants of at least three U.S.-made GBU-39 bombs at the site of an April 28 attack. The strike killed 68 African migrants, according to the Houthis, a militant group that controls northern Yemem”
.And attacking civilian targets is what terrorist do , right

The USN has been conducting massive strikes for weeks from the two carrier groups they have in the area.
The RAF even got its beak wet ( yes its allegorical month)

“The Ministry of Defence (MoD) said Royal Air Force (RAF) Typhoon fighter jets, working with the US, hit a “cluster of buildings” used by the Houthis to manufacture attack drones.” 4 days ago.

The odds are almost certain CSG25 and the F35B will be replicating the very first RN air attacks from the sea along the Red Sea Coast around 1915 ( with ship launched sea planes from HMS Raven and HMS Anne) against Ottoman forces

Wikipedia image of HMS Anne with seaplanes on deck

HMSAnne1
Last edited 12 days ago by Duker
Nig e

Sadly BBC”NEWS” is very much seen as a loose cannon in the BBC organisation!

Deepsixteen

The 40mm Bofor’s on a pallet would work pretty effectively in this instance I would think.

Irate Taxpayer (Peter)

Deepsixteen

  • Quite correct

However, there is only one very-slight problem which I can foresee going forward:

  • “Bofers 40mm on an EPLS

….is an absolutely brilliant idea – however is still a figment of the imagination…

Peter (Irate Taxpayer)

Little Froggy

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/05/russian-navys-baltic-fleet-holds-safety-of-navigation-exercise/

The Russian navy’s baltic fleet did the same exercise the day before.
Good coordination.

D J

Russia can do whatever it likes. The fact remains nothing gets through the Danish straights if Denmark, Norway & Sweden deem otherwise. Centuries old agreements only last till someone decides otherwise. Baltic Sea is a NATO lake. Russia knows it. NATO knows it. Sweden & Poland can sink anything within the Baltic Sea if they have a mind to. So can Russia to a more limited extent while ever it controls Kalingrad. But Russia is well aware that Kalingrad is undefendable. At that point, Russia is limited to the Eastern Baltic with nowhere to manoeuvre naval wise. Land wise is another matter. The Baltic states are exclusively in the Eastern Baltic. I have to agree with Peter here, no-one is putting RFA type ships into the Eastern Baltic in a hot war.

Little Froggy

DJ
“Nothing gets through the straights” out of Baltic. That is “correct”.😏
But there are not only vessels playing the game. R….n aircrafts could be harmful. And drones, and cruises missiles, and ballistic missiles… And even submarines, may be? (a threat ignored in Red Sea). Or simply mines?

So the “OTAN lake” isn’t so obvious.

Joseph Todd

It most certainly won’t be submarines… The Kattegat is far too shallow – I have been a submariner in those waters

Irate Taxpayer (Peter)

Joseph

What about the rest of the Baltic? (ie east of the Kattegut)

History tells us that the Baltic was a very good hunting ground for both Russian and German submarines in 1943-45

Indeed, five of the worlds top-ten “most severe” merchant ship losses (measured in terms of “most casualties per ship”) occurred in the Baltic

Peter (Irate Taxpayer)

Joseph Todd

Undefendable or indefensible…. I do like a play on words… Russian naval power is next to nonexistent… Much like it’s land and air force.

Irate Taxpayer (Peter)

Joseph

One only has to look a what has happened in the Black Sea over the past three years to see that denial of these confined sea areas is very easy

Simple fact of the matter that very liitle merchant shipping (or indeed naval shipping) is now using the “middle part”” of the Black Sea

This one, Al Jezza, from two yaers ago, sums up the issues…

Bing Videos

——————-

And the Baltic is far more constrained for space than the Black Sea

  • Sea denial is very easy
  • and denial only needs very limited and very simple naval or military resources!

Hence my surprise, in my first post, that the RN was even attempting to tak apoint into the Baltic..

Peter (Irate Taxpayer)

Duker

The Black sea comment is interesting. Commercial ships stayway because its a war zone ( insurance ?) and or sanctions on Russia
That is a form of ‘denial’ I suppose.

Nig e

There’s a big difference between Russian surface fleet and sub-service fleet, Russian subs are among the most powerful in the world and should not be so quickly dismissed!

Nig e

Undersea connections were cut in the baltic some months back,its not just military vessels baltic countries have to watch…
Is it possible for the Russians to cut the baltic from the North sea?.

alan wightman

“Russia can do whatever it likes” as NATO is dead as proven in Ukraine.
Russia’s “non-existent” Baltic fleet completed drills with 11 warships.