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Random Commentator

Any idea how many of these USVs we are ultimately ordering? 4 certainly isn’t enough.

Jim

They need motherships, in my opinion, they need to be watched over and protected, not just in wartime but in peacetime also.
Would hate to see a Russian Trawler catching one in it’s nets !

To be honest, I’d hate to see an American Trawler catching one now given Trumps alignment with Putin.

Gordon Bennett

Seems promising but they really need watching over.

Sean

Given both the RN and MN have opted for this as the future of mine warfare, it’s surprising there’s not been sales to other NATO partners. Surely each nation with a coast is a potential customer of one of the systems.
It sounds like a custom build, as with a frigate programme, rather than something intended for a production-run. Which means both up-front cost (absorbing all the development costs) and ongoing maintenance and upgrades etc, will be more expensive.

Jon

So to confirm, the RN is receiving four systems this year, each with 1 USV? Does that include Apollo and Abdiel, or is it an additional four?

nige

Was the type 32 something to do with autonomous systems? 3 more type 31s and 4, 32 would be nice. If that is the case.

Jim

Yes. That is the only description so far given for the mythical T32. “A platform for autonomous systems” The T32 name would suggest another Frigate and many here see it as a B2 T31 but so far, nobody actually knows anything… some even suggest it was just a Boris mis speak. Who really knows just what it might be ? or what autonomous system it might embark ?

nige

Yes Jim a batch 2 type 31 with a large ramp at the sturn, as the mission bay is under the flight deck. Would be a good fit. probably no room for a toad array sonar.

Jim

You don’t and can’t know that though…. No one does.
What is a Toad ?

nige

Sorry Jim I didn’t notice but being dyslexic doesn’t help. towed. 😁
I don’t know it’s just a assumption.

There's Grey In My Beard

Personal view only with no inside information informing it.

1 – Use existing T31es built to current contract and specification in the ‘T32’ Drone deployment vessels role. Rather than modifying contracts, cutting holes in existing platforms and adding yet more confusion and delay to new commissioning.

2- Order Miecznik (with a few mods to match RN logistics – 57mm main gun not 76mm, 40mm secondaries not 35mm, Stingray not MU90, either Artisan or NS110 as radar, in my dreams Captas-4-compact as tail) as an actual GP Frigate.

Supportive Bloke

“ either Artisan or NS110 as radar”

Adding ARTISAN would cost lots of ££££ and risk.

Reason NS100 was chosen is that A140 [T31] uses TACTICOS CMS and NS100 is already integrated so it was a fixed cost low risk solution.

There is no good reason why ARTISAN wouldn’t work and given that RN has a pile of ARTISAN sets and thinks they are good enough for T26 then there *might* be merit but the whole point of T31 was to screw costs to the floor and keep them there and as far away from The Good Ideas Club or the Gold Plate Committee as possible !

There's Grey In My Beard

NS110 cheaper and lower risk. Artisan more commonality with T26s. Seamaster 400 lower risk, higher performance but yet another radar for the fleet and higher cost.

Iain

NS110 4D is also significantly better that 3D 997 Artisan.

Jon

Isn’t Tacticos itself the odd decision?

Jon

We were also told that T32 was a GP frigate in concept.

Supportive Bloke

BW in a rare mis speak did say that T32 might be more T31 but rises back on that when clearly BAE got upset at not getting a look in!

Part of the problem with not having a further option on more units. Was stage to not have options on three more TBH.

Jim

“BW” ?

Jon

Big Ben Wallace. (Why don’t I ever get called Big Jon? No. Don’t answer that.)

Craig

So it’s good news that the RFA strike is over with a pay deal. But it’s awful news that we can’t put key auxillary vessels to sea due to crew shortages. I was hoping to see the remaining mother ships and with the second seabed operations vessel confirmed in the defence review – what is the point if they’re going to be laid up for years? Some sort of retention bonus needs to be brought in.

nige

Hi Craig
I think the only way out of this is better paying and conditions to attract people from the private sector. There’s no point in spending lots of dollars on a ship that you can’t man.

Irate Taxpayer (Peter)

Nige

Very interesting that you and Craig are only talking here about the RFA….and also only you are only talking about operating these new MCM boats from the back of a big mothership (or two) out at sea….

  1. So, with this very-new-fangled UK taxpayer funded MCM capability…… why are you two both automatically assuming that they will only be operated by the civilian RFA? (note 2).
  2. Because, lets face it, most things that “go bang in the night” are usually dealt with by the UK military (or, if they are not being dealt with by the military = then, more often than not, the civvy’s over at local gas board will, very quickly and efficently, soon get stuck into the task in hand… …..please ring 0800 111 999 if you need this civilian UXB / EOD service……and please don’t ask to get put on hold, to listen to their nice muzak, if you smell any gas whilst you are enoying a romanic – obviously candlelit – dinner for two with your beloved partner)
  3. First priority for the RN – especially after this long term “gapping” of this key naval warfighting capability – must be to get these new small MCM ships into service, around the UK, ASAFP
  4. That must be for urgently training up some completely brand-new crews on these new boats and then, at the very same time, also teaching them these all-new detection and UXB / EOD demolition techniques..
  5. Frankly, to do this training very quickly, please can the RN just go out and buy (or beg or borrow) half dozen big low loaders (i.e. to launch these new boats via a local / coastal slipway)
  6. Next – has anybody in MOD and RN and RAF (note 2) even thought yet about any of the key long-range expeditionary logistics issues yet?
  • Next issue – one that might be very necessary for a very quick overseas deployment – might I suggest that somebody checks this new system’s airportability.
  • So, do these boats even fit into the payload bay of an RAF A400M or C17?

And this all now needs to be organised very quickly

‘ because

Having been watching Sky News over the past few days…. I believe that the most-likley first deployment of these brand new RN – RCMM (Remotely Controlled Model Minesweepers) could well be ordered, by our own PM, within the next few weeks

………out to the front line in Ukraine

Why?

  • To find and destroy the huge amounts of unexploded / still live munitions that must by now be littering those huge rivers that run throughout (divide?) Ukraine
  • especially
  • the truely vast wet areas near to their huge – sometimes now destroyed – big dams
  • also to clear and make safe the areas and rivers around and below those very many hundreds of “blown” road and rail bridges…
  • ..all of which will by now have plenty of unexploded drones, rockets, mines, bombs, mortar bombs, glide bombs, artillary shells, FPV UAV’s; left over hand grenades etc etc
  • all made and fired, by both sides, throughout this very-bloody three year long war
  • Because those many bridges and reservoirs must (both) soon be the No1 prority to rebuild after any very big war
  • i.e. because nothing else can be rebuilt without first having proper road and rail access and also drinking water (from resevoirs) is essential to live on .
  • …..even before getting some electricity to charge up your mobile phone .

So, all in all, why not just bite the bullet now …..and so why not transfer the whole of this brand new UK MCM operation over to the RN?……

……after all, traditionally, MCM has always been a key RN tasking……worldwide….(see the historical list directly below).

Peter (Irate Taxpayer)

Historical List

The four previous biggest RN MCM operations undertaken since WW2 were:

  1. Clearing the River Thames after 1945 (and, frankly, the RN did not do a very good job….. they must have been demob happy …….because those Thames cockle boats (i.e. them of Dunkirk fame) are still today in 2025, quite regularly, finding horny mines (i.e. “Made in the Ruhr: 1940“).
  2. Meanwhiile the old HMS Wilton, the world’s first-ever plastic minesweeper has become, moored up very nearby, the local Thames Estuary Yacht Club’s bar and clubhouse.
  3. Suez Canal in the 1970’s – after the combined effects of both the 1967 Six Day War and then the 1973 Yom Kipper War – so the world’s busiest waterway needed to be reopened
  • So there is nothing new about this key sea trading route being shut ……..so, therefore, there is nothing new about an incumbent US President conducting long-lasting peace negotiations in the Muddle East ………………..obviously seeking a long-term solution… and then banging the table….. to get a “diplomatic settlement”…
  1. Falklands Islands throughout all of the 1980’s (both on land and at sea: mostly clearly munitions marked up “Made in the USA, delivered by UPS, routed via Buenos Aires“)
  2. Kuwait throughout the 1990’s
  3. Former Yugoslavia throughout the 2000’s (I first went yachting around Croatia the early 2000’s…. so soon after that civil war ended ……and we heard four very big bangs in just the two weeks we were over there cruising the coast (i.e local farmer’s livestock being – very quickly and very efficently – coverted into thin cut stewed beef or lamb mincemeat)

Note 1

For any civilian land-lubbers reading this post……. the RFA is not to be confused with the RAF (please see next).

Note 2

So…. with the MOD drive (please excuse the pun) deploying autonomus military system of systems – thus taking the human out of the loop – can I ask if these new MCM-USV’s have the capability to now drive themselves to RAF Carterton (i.e. without getting lost on around all of those narrow and twisting Oxfordshire country lanes): then loading themselves onto a RAF transport plane; then to allocate themselves the right seat; and (only then) order their own G&T (no ice, with lemon – not shaken, but stirred) from the RAF plane’s autopilot?

  • Sorry.
  • I meant to say, just then, “can the RN’s new MCM USV procure its own G&T from the RAF’s UAV’s autopilot?.. “
Fat Bloke on Tour

Crew shortages — where is the money going?

If the RFA does not have enough sailors to crew its ships — what is happening to the underspend?

There is an underspend …

anonymous coward

yup! If RFA has budget for xthousand sailors, and currently employs xthousand -minus xhundred, then the budgeted wages for all those empty positions must be going somewhere… and it doesn’t appear to be into sailors’ pockets…

Stephen

Hope they cpme with self destruction in case they fall into enemies hands

Irate Taxpayer (Peter)

Stephen

No!

To self-destruct in an emergency = this RN MCM USV boat will simply aim itself at the nearest hostile mine.

That “final countdown sequence” has already been pre-programmed and hard wired into this uncrewed boat’s Japanese-developed computer software……

Petter (irate Taxpayer)

Jim

I have to go to bed now…… sorry, I can’t cope anymore….. see you all in the morning.

BigLou

I actually lifted USV 2.8 out of the water after testing and onto a trailer for delivery 🙂

There's Grey In My Beard

Blimey. I was proud of my 180kg 5 rep max for deadlift, sounds like you smashed that.

Robert Mileham

This is all very commendable and I’m sure in the years to come may actually provide the UK with a meaningful operational capability. Unfortunately, not yet and in the interim UK plc has taken another slice of the “peace dividend”. Namely disposing of a capability that actually works in order to fund something that (fingers crossed) may work at some future date, while taking yet another “capability holiday” to join the many other across defence. When one looks across the UK’s defence in its entirety one can quickly see why the incoming US administration has such contempt for a nation with such threadbare armed forces. Perhaps our pm has decided to shout loudly on the diplomatic stage as he’s unable to “speak softly whilst carrying a big stick”.

Alasdair Gilchrist MBE

Auto launch and recovery progress?