In this article, we consider in more detail the implications following the revelation that an RN submarine deliberately surfaced close to the Russian spy ship Yantar in November 2024.
It is extremely rare for a submarine to chose to give away its position. This goes against the instinct of every submariner to remain covert and undetected at all times. Stealth and invisibility are the submarine’s main advantages but once detected, the boat is inherently vulnerable, especially when on the surface. However, being unpredictable and evolving tactics swiftly to have relevant effect is part of why RN submarines are so feared.
The move was undoubtedly effective, a 7,400-tonne Astute-class submarine surfacing is quite spectacular, even when expected, but rising unannounced from the deep would certainly have got the Russian’s attention. With maritime patrol aircraft overhead and warships already observing the Yantar’s every move it might be argued that surfacing an SSN was unnecessary. Besides the lethal threat to a ship posed by a submarine, it was a reminder that the UK can also deploy under water assets to counter Russian activity.
While unorthodox, this demonstrates an increasing determination by the government to deter any interference with Critical Undersea Infrastructure. The decision to surface would have to have been balanced against the risk of Yantar gathering close-up signature information about the Astute. It seems unlikely she carries sophisticated hull-mounted sonars but might able to deploy off-board sensors quickly. Yantar is an unarmed ship, capable of about 15 knots but if there had been a Russian warship in the vicinity, the whole scenario would have been very different.
Intentionally revealing the presence of a boat is unusual, although not entirely unprecedented. There have been incidents of submarines deliberately showing themselves to achieve either a specific tactical objective or for strategic signalling reasons . Few are recorded in the public domain, but in the 1970s HMS Osisris kept her periscope raised close to a Soviet AGI (intelligence gathering vessel) to distract attention away from a Polaris boat leaving the Clyde at the start of a deterrent patrol. (See Hunter Killers by Iain Ballantyne). During the Cold War, aggressive submarine operations by both sides were more common than today. Recent events are closer to the spirit of that ‘cat and mouse’ game that occupied enormous effort and resources but took place largely out of sight.
We see you
Speaking in the Commons Defence Secretary Healy said: “I want President Putin to hear this message: We see you, we know what you are doing and we will not shy away from robust action to protect this country”. Armed Forces Minister, Luke Pollard subsequently explained to the BBC: “…that’s why we declassified the incident that took place in November. That’s why we are making public that we had Royal Navy, RAF and RFA assets observing what the Russian Spy ship was doing – we surfaced a submarine alongside it to send a very clear message”
It should be noted that, although close to the UK, Yantar stayed outside the 12-mile territorial limit and was entitled to enter international waters nominally conducting ‘innocent passage’. The MoD says that so far, Yantar has complied with normal rules of navigation but this does not mean she has not been surveying undersea infrastructure or at least trying to give the appearance of doing so.
During Yantar’s voyage from her Northern Fleet Base, she intermittently chose to turn on her AIS, thus intentionally revealing some of her activities to the public. Her AIS was active on 7th November when over the Langeland Nord pipeline that supplies the UK with Norwegian gas. She was monitored passing eastward through the English Channel but her unusual detour into the Irish Sea first became public on 14th November when she again briefly turned on her AIS just north of the Isle of Man. At the same time, the RN SUBFACTS scheme that provides warnings to fishing vessels advised that there would be submarine activity in the same area.
Unconfirmed reports in the Daily Mail say the surfacing incident occurred (probably a day or two later) in the southern part of the Irish Sea, off Widemouth Bay on the north Cornish coast. This is a landing point for several transatlantic cables and not far from the GCHQ listening station at Bude.
Signalling and messaging
From the Russian perspective, they would probably consider this aspect of Yantar’s recent voyage something of a success. For a relatively small cost, they tie up NATO naval resources and get plenty of attention which may stoke disproportionate fear of Russian capabilities. The deployment is not just performative, they gather intelligence, test reactions and signal their potential to interfere with UK CUI, should they choose. The ship that has become a household name may also distract from other more nefarious activities being conducted by their submarines and submersibles that can be deployed more covertly underwater.
The timing of the incident was fortuitous as the RN SSN force had finally begun to recover from its long spell of inactivity and there were three boats at sea in mid-November. The very rare example of a Minister talking publicly about submarine operations has provided a badly needed ‘good news’ story for the RN. This incident neatly showed the navy at its best, protecting the nation in a way that is clear for everyone to understand. Media coverage also showed the more ‘routine’ escort duties carried out by HMS Somerset, including deploying on Christmas Day, as well as RFA Proteus, pictured facing down the Yantar in a kind of disease versus cure moment.
The picture of Proteus behind the Yanatar was impressive.
Good to also show sub “teeth”.
Nice to see that they have started to get Proteus some sea time.
The only problem here is that it is reasonable to assume that the Russian vessel was recording noise signatures which they can now attribute to an Astute SSN.
As usual nothing for nothing.
Might it be that subs have a “noisy thing” device on them, like the radar reflector that F35’s have to distort or otherwise give false noise readings to enemy vessels?
Might have been more scary to surface a large unmanned underwater vessel next to them…
AA
They can run their gearing poorly. The reactor can also be run with a rattle. It’s entirely possible that unlike SSBNs, SSNs are rarely fully silent running in peacetime.
Does Yantar have the sort of large sonar array that allows such a quiet sub to be detected, let alone collect a signature?
For all we know the SSN surfaced a mile away.
It has side scan seafloor mapping sonars, both on hull and towed
http://www.hisutton.com/Yantar.html
Could it have been HMS Triumph? This would remove the risk of recording a noise signature given it’s imminent retirement and no more T-boats in service?
Simple answer is NO. Triumph was on the Clyde doing Perisher and was working with a Hunt Class.. The RN made a huge news story of this.
Very unusual for RN to make a huge news story about anything never mind an SSN.
Which does make you wonder if it was a case of ‘we are over here’ shouted very loud and then ‘ha ha gotcha we are right underneath you and you had no idea we were there’.
Yes, Triumph was doing Perisher but there was nothing to prevent her from taking a detour to the Irish Sea while the Hunt pretended to be still working with her.
Anyway it is fun to speculate but we won’t know for sure until something is announced – not that it will be!
The article picture shows an Astute but if it is actually photoshopped then it might as well be a Red Herring !
it says it was a mock up but still a great mock up
NL has stated that it is a composite image: so it is, The Herring most red, mon ami!’
Lol… Stitched up like a kipper !
Is that HMS RedHerring? 🙂
It is a huge news story and more
This is possible because she came home just before Christmas for the very last time I think
Well the Astutes are hardly new now, if Russia doesn’t have a sonar signature on them already I’d be very surprised, so nothing lost really
Verify range to target, one ping only…..
A Red Star for you.
So who took this picture and where were they at the time and how did they know where the Astute would surface ???
Adobe Photoshop m8
It will have been very well choreographed.
The UK vessels will have been told what to expect and any ship’s photographer would have given anything to have captured this moment!
Looks like a masterpiece of NL Photoshop to me.
Remember the mine hunting mother ship?
Are you talking about the previous article and Proteus ? I just find this to be a little bit staged or as you say “photoshopped”.
No, NL has a history of some pretty horrendous photoshop bodges.
As here, they are quite easy to spot because of the differences in lighting between the sections.
Here the Astute is in sunlight coming over the viewer’s right shoulder, and Yantar is lit through mist and cloud from the left.
Well now you mention it, I can see what you are saying. This is more akin to the sort of article I associate with MSN.
MSN yesterday had an Article on the huge Ice slab heading to South Georgia Island with the comment that it was so large, it is visible from space 850,000 miles away.
Funny thing that It would not be even remotely visible from the Moon which is a mere 250,000 miles away !
I think we live in dangerous times when it comes to Fact and BS.
“When I were a lad” we didn’t have Internet, nor MSN, Nor sites like this…. I tremor to think how bad it will get when you reach my age.
Please note the article clearly says “Main image: composite mock-up”!
” Cleary ” is a bit of a stretch though, It only says it right at the end of the article. I don’t think anyone else who commented here saw it either. But thanks for that, it has helped us understand where we all went wrong.
Thank you
it states that its a mock up composite, but a good one
Yes I gathered that many hours before you turned up to tell me a few times.
“We see you” again doing the same thing but this time in the North Sea two months later.
This is not to dissimilar to our Rivet Joints flying around near Ukraine and being buzzed whilst over the Black Sea.
All part of the game.
Innocent passage applies in territorial seas and not on the high seas. No mention of HMS Cattistock?
It sounds like an astute tactical response, namely because of the probability that the Russia ship is looking for something, namely a way to sabotage the UK and EU communication and energy infrastructure?
All
I cannot but help getting the very definite impression that Yantar’s recent voyage – including its skippers tactic of occassionally revealling its position directly over UK CNI by using bursts of AIS – was an attempt to divert the Roayl Navy’s extremely limited “out at sea” resources well away from other NAE
(“Nefarious Activities Elsewhere”)
So, the two bleeding obvious questions to now be asking are:
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
I have been wondering the same.
I presume the right to innocent passage specifically excludes carrying out research while doing so?
Innocent passage only applies to territorial seas
The story says at all times it was in international waters beyond the 12nm limit
Somerset deployed 27th December not 25th. Astute was in The Med during Nov and made an appearance in Gib during late November.from what I have read Anson was in UK waters and made a visit to Plymouth Sound in December. Both returned home in December and I understand one of them has since deployed as part of The carrier task group.
A lot goes on at sea the public never hear about. I bet the Yantar has enough sonar aboard to know something was happening just before the A-boat popped up onto the roof.
Argie-bargie at sea is why our OPV’s need strengthened hulls.
Sutton’s rather fantastic cutaway of the Yantar……….
http://www.hisutton.com/images/Yantar_940.jpg
Further to the last discussion I bet a case could be made for a patrol submarine for UK waters.
If purely for UK waters then I’d suggest AIP boats but there’s no money.
The whole subject has been done to death on many sites over the years.
Personally I believe we are relying too much on too little.
I was checking out the latest PLAN builds earlier, Boy are they building at a staggering pace. At least 500 Ships and Subs plus a massive fleet of Aux’s. Even a bunch of UAV Carriers. Their LHD’s look pretty impressive too.
You got to question when and where they intend to put them to use ?
It’s the People’s Armed Force Maritime Militia we will probably have to deal with first. Probably around the Falklands. Only 700,000 hulls to worry about.
A true “Blue Water” force !
Trollers are just so annoying !
Could an XLUUV be designed to tail ships like this?
Some of the larger ones can do 10 knots and have plenty of endurance for a home waters mission.
Also there’s no problem with continuous transmission because the object is to let them know you are there, while pretending you don’t want to.
Every time Yantar stops, the drone sub could send down an ROV of its own or ping with a sonar to make sure of no “problematic” activities.
I’d have a look at MSubs’ Moray concept for something that could be good for the job. The company seems to have gone cold, however; I sent them emails weeks ago with no reply.
Good question. I don’t think our proposed UK version (CETUS) has either the speed nor range to do that yet though. It’s just a very small concept at the moment. Maybe one day it’ll morph though.
Moray is quite a bit bigger, 100 tonnes and 30m long. It’s essentially an unmanned small SSK, the same size as early U-boats and says endurance 15 days at 12 knots.
CETUS is I think max 8 knots, economical speed 3.
Perhaps we need a special “skipjack” high speed design for trailing surface ships?
Or even a semi-submersible?
It’s not a question of endurance. It is a matter of command and control. Submarines work because they have a crew.
PLAN is building up to ultimately take on the US Navy if they intervene in the Taiwan scenario.
According to PLA watchers the PLAN is expected to commission in 2025 the following;
x1 CV -003 (Fujian)
x1 LHD – Type 075
x2 055 – DDG
x4 052D – DDG
x4 054A – FFG
x1 093B – SSGN
Forgive my ignorance but why do our OPV’s need strengthened hulls ? I understand that ships occasionally strike each other, Cod Wars was a classic example but are you suggesting some sort of deliberate ramming capability ?
I would never suggest that His Majesty’s ram other ships.
The very thought…….. 😉
Yes mostly for protection. Just as our OPV’s need monitors and LRAD’s……..
OK but I’m still not quite with it on the Protection thing, our ships are built without the heavy armour of years gone by only where needed, I think it’s called “all or nothing” ?
Also, are you the real WIZ or another imposter ? If real then fine, If an Imposter then LOL.
Jim
Many of the thinly -plted RN Leander class frigates were fiited with large vertical strips of thick timber bulks/planking – fitted over the whole of the bow area – during the 1970’s Cod Wars agaainst Iceland:
The timber planking was often fitted In Chatham Dockyard
That thich layer of extra protection allowed them to “play dodgums” with the Icelandic patrol boats
We should try the same tactic on the Russians
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
I sort of recall it didn’t work that well…. was It Odin that caused a nasty gash in Scylla’s hull ? I seem to recall it might have been HMS Hero though. Only those of us of a certain age will recall all that and the rising costs of Fish and Chips. Hmmm, It Friday, I might just have Fish and Chips for tea.
Dilemma, will it be mushy peas of curry sauce ?
Added dilemma, should I add scraps ?
Looks more like a Blackwood Class in the photo
Not sure what one of those is but I do know there were a number of Cod wars over the years. I’m going to do a google search now to see what a Blackwood is….. Hopefully when I search Blackwood, I’ll not be too shocked. Stick around, i’ll be back in a bit.
OK got you now, Blackwood’s would have been used in the previous Cod war. They were only @Владимир Темников 1500 Tons so a bit less than our R2’s but faster and better armed. Thanks for posting your comment, I always like to learn new things.
Handy tip. Delete your stored NL cookies as thats how your links get compromised
I didn’t write that
Don’t worry, it’ll be deleted soon, only certain people are allowed to comment here.
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others
Jim
You are quie right = Loosing the Cod Wars changed British History…
Maybe we should get our own back – and just invade Iceland?
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Arachnid
Well spotted
Sorry for my frankly very basic and rather silly, beginners level mistake
I attached the wrong photo! (note 1).
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Note 1. I am now on the naughty step – facing the wall – counting the numbers of coats of paint…
Considering Trump’s geopolitical aspirations Iceland could be a target at some point. If Trump wants to defend the Eastern Seaboard he needs to control the GIUK Gap. The US already has the U at the European end of the patrol line
No its me.
Our ships are no stronger than they were in the 70’s.
This was Falmouth.
South China Sea is getting rough. Someday soon the UK will have to go to the Falklands to help secure their fisheries.
China doesn’t play gently
Are we not there already though ? I seem to recall we sent an armada there 40 odd years ago and have since built many fortifications and facilities to enable us to repel any invaders ?
Do you doubt that a singe B1 River could struggle against a mere 700,000 Chinky Trollers ?
Women Drivers, what are they like !
Ask the RNZN about them……..
Lol…. I just can’t reply for fear of breeching site rules !!
Hello HMS Nottingham court martial would like a word
The RNZ navy vessel was surveying an actual reef and some issue with bow thrusters
No. You are doing your normal trick of going off on an tangent. What happened to the Manawanui was a weapons grade c0c-k up of the first order.
There was no issue with the thrusters. The issue was with the crew not understanding the functioning of the autopilot. THAT A SHIP CONDUCTING A SURVEY IN SHOAL WATERS WAS ON AUTOPILOT IN THE FIRST PLACE WASN’T A STARTLING EXAMPLE OF SEAMANSHIP. The ship sunk in 30 minutes. The CO’s bridge experience was questionable.
What amazes me is that you can go off find rhubarb about the Nottingham but fail to read up on the Manawanuii. So what have you proved or shown? Nothing.
There you are. Its always negligence involved, but wasnt aware of NZ navy full details.
4 males found responsible for the near sinking of HMS Nottingham was a bigger screw up as the chart showed the rock.
BTW I can respond in which ever way I wish. I dont work for you nor is this site vetted or blocked replies. if it doesnt suit ,this site isnt for you. I understand thats called ‘facebook’
The comment was about a woman CO. That was the end of it. I made no mention of men scuppering ships. There are loads of examples of men c0ck!ng up when driving ships because men drive ships a lot more often than women. Simple as that.
Seems like liebour getting some news out, so a deflection on their home woes?
Why surface a sub? Did the Yanter have some submersibles out checking cables?
The Yantar reminds me of my Top Trump days and the French Suffren Frigates. Not the best card to have in your hand but they were pretty fast and actually quite large for their time.
It’s really just the round ball radar feature but it still brought back happy memories playing that game. Wasp was good, so was Long Beach but Nimitz was the killer card !
Another way of looking at this ‘show of force’ is that it was for domestic consumption. It might also help recruitment.
Keep it up boys!
The new is probably real but the picture used is fake whoever put it together, take a good look at the waterline on the sub :-). We have to find a way to do this cheaper and easier than sending multiple platforms.
Please note the article clearly says “Main image: composite mock-up”!
Where ? I took a good look when it was posted, clicked on the Image and searched for any caption, couldn’t see anything. Just had another look, still can’t see it ?
OK, Got it now, right at the very bottom of the whole article.
Normally I see this on the actual picture.
Right under the photo of a DeLonghi coffee machine on sale now.
The fake image should be labelled clearly under the image itself. Or better yet, don’t use the fake
Indeed, I usually look at the picture and see if it’s labelled like normal but failed to notice the note right at the bottom of the article itself after I read till the end.
This pic being false could be said to be a deep fake and there’s an awful lot of that on the internet in general. I’m not doubting this actually happened though.
Yes, it does seem to be a fake picture, there’s a lot of fake content here lately, maybe it will have been taken down by the morning.
In other news, well over on MSN, there is an article from GB News that says “Passenger Jet hits subsonic speeds due to tail winds from storm Eowyn” !
It sort of ranks up there with “British Battleship intercepts Drug runners in the Caribbean”
News sites today just ain’t like they used to be.
Jim
Not like the good old days of weasther reports
One mid-Victorian era newspaper carried the big banner headline
“Fog in the Channel: Continent Cut Off”
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Ha ha. Feeling a bit Foggy myself this morning !
Off out now, see you in the morning if I’m still here. You can never tell nowadays just what might happen overnight.
Just don’t tell them where our Nuclear ones are please
That was a nuclear one, a nuclear powered but conventionally armed attack submarine.
Yes, you beat me to it ! But if the Tomahawks carried were fitted with W80 warheads, they’d pretty much be N boats in both cases.
The Senior Service. Never knowingly overwhelmed. They make me proud to be British – unlike any of our 21st Century politicians.
What a great image, I mean composite mock up. Still, it’s got to be a “well done lads” event no matter what. Thank you RN.
ah come on, whose kidding who here! At very best the UK has 3 operational SSN’s, with at least one standing guard with our SSBN, the other on Perishers. This article is just BS.
Over the last year the RN has been doing well if it had had one SSN away from wall.
Can the higher echelons please bear in mind we are governed by the O.S.A.
The RN is second to none and we do not need to advertise where we are, at sea, on land and in the air, and what we are doing.
Old School – “Loose lips sink ships”.
Over and out.
You cannot be over and out.
If you say over you are expecting a reply.
If you say out you have finished.
As for where the RN is sat mostly next to the wall. The only regular movement being up and down with the tide.
FELIX
Reply to Whale Island Zookeeper
Apologies Sir, for any offence caused. Was out because need to get to my bunk. I’ve been cautioned by you for going out on the wrong tide. That’s my explanation. Hope its taken the right way. Am new to this site, seriously ill and want to keep the hand in. Not much ‘Navy Lark’ at my age,so will keep my head below the parapet. No final shots across the bow. Have always and still stand by my comment on OSA and “Loose lips sink ships”.
Can only hope you have the room to take that ‘on board’.
Temerity is not needed btw and no need to be so bombastic on such a small mistake. I know the difference but we don’t need to send a bullet of sarcasm back at a ‘Salty old Sea Dog”.
My family is Royal Signals, I know Army for the shame, I have had decades of ‘That makes no sense……..’ or ‘That’s not right……..’ when watching police shows or war films………..The habit has rubbed off……..
You did well to break the mould and join the RN, I remember many years ago, you were also on Rusty Lusty when the lift broke. Do you remember that mate ?
That wasn’t me. But I know peeps who were aboard the Lusty at the time.
Whale Island Zookeeper
Obviously. BULLY was HMS BULWARK – just like the others, sent for razor blades…
JIM
FROM FELIX
Did you actually mean me ‘breaking the mould and joining the Navy?
If so, I’ve broken quite a few moulds since…you’re a good egg…
FELIX
Whale Island Zookeeper
My family is 3 generations Army WW1…RAF Bomber Command Avro Lancasters WW2 + RNFAA..post WW2..I had to defy Highly decorated Patriachal Officer decorated by late King George V1 in order to get to Navy….I get you “That’s wrong, ‘That’s not right”…..
Habit rubbed off on self too.
‘There is no shame’…
I stopped watching TV re. Armed Forces, couldn’t stand the PTSD, it only worsened it for me..didn’t want to 🙈🙉🙊 or unsee memories.
PTSD cripples for those who don’t know. I guess you know. Going to gave a tot or 2 Cognacs now, not Navy Rum. Even that would get criticised….I’ll be back to “hail you brothers on the blower” or should I say email. No social websites for me.
Danger lurking in the shadows at all times…
Damn! I just replied to myself. DOH!!!
Yes, you seem to be replying to some of your other Manifestations a lot.
There’s Grey in my beard
Yes I know, but am new here + still getting used to the configuration of this site. My apologies.
WHALE ISLAND ZOOKEEPER
Me too knew a loved peep on ‘Lusty’
Reply to Whale Island Zookeeper
I had one loved peep on The ARK/BULLLY and his grandson on INVINC + LUSTY. Great ski-jumps. That is now histrionics. Never the less, proud of and miss both. Lest we forget them who went before us and the perilous waters, land and air that our Servicemen + women are all working together to keep safe right now for us Brits.
A lot of red alert to say the least.
Where I live on the literal edge of the coast I hear Military craft scrambled + carrying out rekkies but in December/January heard birds + choppers scrambling over the channel and hovering. I’m that close. I still keep my log. Old habits die hard. Keeping my eyes + ears on alert. Can’t help it. Take care Sir.
Is this because of the economists article last week asking if the RN had become too timid? :-)!
What’s the point of having a “robust ” defence when you let people enter the uk on rubber boats? All this money spent on expensive hardware is a joke.
It was better saying the Russian research ship identified the submarine activity nearby and had to resurface. The Russians will take their revenge against the British involvement of destroying the Russian Nord stream pipeline.
Yantar doesn’t even have weapons or a hull sonar.
Astutes, as far as we know, have no means of interfering with or even closely monitoring subsea pipelines.
At least make the disinformation believable.
I don’t think we know that Yantar has or doesn’t have. I would be surprised if it didn’t have at least a MOAS.
We don’t know, but any reasonably capable ASW sonar will be visible in drydock and a hull passive array needs machinery quietening that seems unlikely for the Yantar, nominally a civilian vessel.
Our own Navy seem confident that it didn’t know the sub was there, anyway.
I think they would have enough ‘instrumentation’ aboard to know that there was a boat about to surface. Blowing tanks is noisy.
Sometimes sonars can be retracted back into the hull for a variety of reasons.
Seafloor mapping sonars
Sutton has a good background and usually very reliable
The possible deployed submersibles are the real reason for the RN sub intervention
http://www.hisutton.com/Yantar.html
Sutton is usually good. My point is that if they are dealing with subsurface matters then they might have measures to monitor their surroundings. You don’t know. Sutton doesn’t know. All I said they would have probably heard it as it entered the immediate locality and heard the tanks blown. That is quite a noise.
Russians (Soviets) have form for hiding things on their auxiliaries.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/soviettrawler2-jpg.151611/
https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down//media/russian-trawler.383973/full
I forgot. It might have ‘something’ just for scenarios like the one under discussion.
Don’t understand letting them no where we are ,,, that is a foolish decision. Russia has about a thousand more submarines than UK so if you think a show of strength or something like that ,,,they will be laughing at the UK . Russia has submarines about four times the size of the ones UK has and they can deliver massive nuclear missiles . So all this crap of showing where and when kind of show for the t v camera is unbelievable foolish.
You certainly know your stuff. I never knew the Russians had at least 1011 subs. I’m sure the resident fact checker will be along soon to post the relevant info. ( although he seems to be abnormally absent ).
Yeah right and I am Madonna
S Glencross
The media is a very dangerous partaker in all of this, making shedloads of money out of too much ‘Smoke + Mirrors’ + Propaganda.
Nobody ever gets to know the truth as to who, what and where.
Read between the lines and remember even Whitehall Politicians are WARMONGERS because they should know better. ‘Snakes + ladders’ comes to mind + ‘Solitaires’. Good money thrown at WARGAMES!.
S Glencross
That should say ‘Solitaire’. Must correct self.
You make a very good point but I think you’ve over estimated the Ruskis numbers. As for them laughing at us; ask yourself how many times we’ve laughed at them.
Caution must be exercised at all times though. We’re always on ‘Red Alert’, ready to ‘Scramble’ + eyes are always on balls in more ways than one, to make a tiny laughter point.
MOD is not allowed to give out the truth re. numbers on what we have and where they are positioned. Strategies and Logistics come under the OSA. The Media want to turn it into another ‘James Bond’ blockbuster at the expense of human lives. Take the media with a pinch of salt. We all know they cannot be trusted!
Be prepared at all times but don’t over-egg the Ruskis puddings.
Where I live, I’ve heard ‘overhead birds’ being ‘scrambled’ + my word their engines and blades are very low altitude.
Never underestimate our capabilities. We are the BEST!
To S Glencross
Accidently sent message to myself about wargames.
It is intended for you.
I just did a quick search. Russia has 8 SSBN to our 4 but all of theirs are older than ours.
They have 28 SSNs to our 6 but only 4 are contemporary to the Astutes, the others are all older than our T boat, They have 22 con. subs which have uses but also clear limits.
Given we will never be fighting them on our own why should we worry?
Why worry about people dying as long as they have company? I can think of a few reasons.
Jon
Totally agree with you.
Chrislondon
Woh! Your last para “Given we will never be fighting them on our own why should we worry?
That’s got my hackles up. Very angry that you can make such a COLD, TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT Statement and taking others for granted too.
YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF AND RETRACT YOUR STATEMENT.
Been watching Trumps videos for a few hours here, can’t say I disagree with much he has said but also I have certain concerns about some critical points he raised.
Panama Canal, Canada, Greenland and Tariffs on China I understand but he needs to back the feck away from any UK actions.
But hell lets have a UK 5% GDP hike, I’m well up for that, and lets open up Coal Mines again, we have proven deposits of over 300 years worth and bugger the Thunberg worshipers, my local coastal sea levels have not risen an inch in all my years.
If Trump owned the Falklands, it would be drilling by now.
Make Britain great again, Stop the Dinghy’s, Ditch the EV’s and let’s go and retake the World.
Obviously I’m joking as we have reached a new low since such times of World domination.
Jim
I assume you are sole (i.e. founding) member of the new MEGA party?
When elected to government in four years time, your first task is to =Save the Royal Navy!
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
Peter (Irate Tax Payer)
From Felix
As I’m new on this site and I hope others will let me off; It would appear that I’ve replied to myself twice…DOH!
I read your assumption to Jim, but could not help but read “Sole ie. as in floundering).
Put me on a Charge if I am wrong.
Felix
Very good, stick around a bit longer than you normally do.
To Jim
OMG can’t believe you’ve brought Trump, China and Dingies and GDP back into this. OMG, you could start a war of your own in an empty room…
Jim
Are you a ‘Trumpist”? You seem obsessed with him and his ideals.
He is full of B******t.
Concentrate on your own country and keep up with reality, not Trump’s fantasy world. He is dangerous!
Also keep up with the subject matter that is very important at present. We are living in a Nuclear age that dates back atleast 60 years that I know of. There are numerous countries that have stockpiles of Nuclear missiles and other kinds of Nuclear Ammo.
Stick to the facts, not fiction, or you will make yourself ill.
You’d be better off watching Benny Hill Videos, at least you could have a laugh. You say you are joking, I can’t see any jokes especially when you mention World Domination. That is not funny. You are not funny. Be careful not to wag the Tiger’s tail while he is sleeping…..
“Are you a Trumpist ? You seem obsessed with him and his ideals.”
I can be whatever you want to make me out to be, based on that comment. #
No point in my trying to explain further.
How’s the head ?
Jim
Never felt better. Thanks for asking
No worries, I just had a concern you might have over done the Pussers last night. Good to hear you are ok though.
Jim
Thanks, though Pussers or Lambs are the dog’s b******s, but my palette has changed + have to admit my tipple these days is Courvoisier VSOP or Remi Martin. Moderation though.
Glad to hear you’re much more ‘chipper’ today. Chin up, shoulders back 😉
Cool post. You fit in well here with all the other “Newbies”.
I particularly enjoy viewing and observing the differences and similarities each new poster brings to this site.
It’s easy to spot them for what they are.
Jim
SHOCKED FELIX HAVING A RIGHT RANT
What’s your take, or anybody’s, on the new ‘UNITY’ Sub fleet deal between Rolls Royce + MOD…. to cost £9 Billion, Yes £9 Bn. If its viable, then us Tax Payers will pick up the bill? WILL IT BE US PENSIONERS???!!!
Someone needs to put their head down the toilet + flush it at the same time!
Take care Jim.
Yeah ok mate…. As much as I love having Banter with the usual posters on here, I do see right through you. It’s OK though, You make me laugh.
Jim
Nobody can see right through me.
Keep my cards close and powder dry. Never allow anyone to see right through me. Don’t let guard down but yes its good to have bands with us decent peeps. Hope you’ve got a card up your sleeve.
Jim
Glad I make you laugh…good for the soul…keep your spirits up 👍
Jim
“For what they are”
You’ve probably noticed I speak my mind, but the truth for me is paramount. My word is my bond.
I get you too.
Ok.
Jim
My earlier reply should have read “good to have banter with decent peeps”. Need some shuteye now.
Poss catch you tomorrow.
Hello, I must admit it’s always rather amusing when one prolific poster stops posting and another turns up to take their place.
You can always spot them though, well I can at least.
It’s OK, you can come back now Duker. Multiple User names are against the rules. Report yourself to Mod’s.
Deary me !
I find it strange too…
Jim,
So “you always find it amusing…………
Am I another who’s turned up to take the place of a previous prolific poster?”
“You can always spot them though”
Well ✔️ done. You’ve spotted me and as you said earlier “You can see right through me”. I don’t think so unless you’re a double agent.
So you are not so new here as you claimed? What is your game? Want some Whiskas?
the Cat
Yes am new here. No game. No thanks, don’t eat Whiskas, that’s for Cats but thanks for the offer and probing not necessary.
the Cat
Taking the p*** not needed. Can see right through your tactics. You got Jim’s back. I’ve got my own.
As you’re the Cat, had any Sheba lately? Your move.
the Cat
If you did your homework, you’ll see that I only subscribed Friday 24/1/25.
I’m not interested in mind games or any games, but, I take comms seriously. So you want to pick on a seriously ill pensioner, be my guest. You won’t get anywhere. Check my late Father out and you will back down. Like him, I don’t suffer fools gladly. If you don’t like it, you can put it in your pipe and smoke it!
the Cat
Need to rest and eat. So…OUT.
And don’t you dare question my integrity with your childish digs!
Jim
“TRUST no one.
“SUSPECT everyone.
Jim
Just spit it out
Never had multiple names. The dupes and the new ‘first name’s are all the 5th column ahead of the South China Sea voyage of CSG25. They will disrupt totally. Dont say I didnt warn you
So is this your early shift at McDonald’s?
Chicken McNuggets® are made with all-white meat chicken and no artificial colors, flavors, or preservatives. There are 170 calories in a 4-piece Chicken McNuggets®
Ingredients: White Boneless Chicken, Water, Vegetable Oil (canola Oil, Corn Oil, Soybean Oil, Hydrogenated Soybean Oil), Enriched Flour
So that you know I can respond in whatever way I wish.
FELIX, you are sounding like another “Irate” member.
Hmm….just will not tolerate any form of attempted bullying tactics. When I suspect any kind of ‘gang warfare’ it is my prerogative to put ‘little boys in their place’. I have too much love and respect for the RN to allow fake banter to bring the tone down. There is no need to pick on anyone, so they get called out.
I am angry about the ‘Unity’ Sub fleet being announced at a cost of £9 billion as its the Tax Payer that foots the bill ultimately.
Anyway enough said.
Thank you for your feedback. Much appreciated.
TGIMB
Felix is definitely not me!
I only ever post under one name; and always from the same (i.e. linked) e-mail address here in the UK
Peter (Irate Taxpayer)
FELIX is me and it would seem that wires have got crossed. I believe part of your name was accidentally referenced. Hope that clears things up.
Irate Taxpayer (Peter)
From FELIX
Just to clarify; another person posted to me and said I sounded like “another Irate member”.
It was not intended for you, only me (FELIX) as I have been feeling Irate about a couple of topics esp. About the ‘UNITY’ Sub fleet deal being announced between MOD and Rolls Royce, at a staggering price of £9 BILLION. I fear it will be taxpayers, Pensioners footing the bill. Where or how else will £9 Billion be funded.
I welcome your opinion.
If you scroll back to last evening you will read me retaliate against someone wearing different hats, carrying his wooden spoon, and bringing his pet in to start meowing at me. That got my hackles up. I tell it as it is + am a decent person. But when this site is turned into a junior school playground for a few minutes, my G-d, I spin on a sixpence, turn a horseshoe and fire back. This site is not to be brought into I’ll repute. We are all adults, well I thought we were.
I never back down. Take care Sir.
I address some people as Sir when I feel it is a noun to be correctly used.
Well this bunch of comments ended well I have to say.
Until a system like Disqus is installed so users can block without recourse to the site owner the comments will always be a mess.
I thought we did well with the last article.
I have never understood why some seek to destroy the work of others.
No one on here can now be believed to be who they say they are. Personally I will refrain from commenting further until a re boot of the comments section occurs.
The NL,FB and X sites have at least some sort of control over who can comment and they both have the Blocking feature, Can’t see why this site still allows all the multi false and fake accounts.
I’m sure you would be happy to post under your real name as I would be too.
Sir
The last article was very well dealt with….you + Sailorboy very interesting, particularly.
I for one will be grateful for your intervention as am still trying to navigate my way around this forum and my and all concerned for allegedly seeking to destroy the work of others. I am humble and offer whatever apologies are due from my side and can only hope the others, who know who they are have the common decency to copy.
The defence secretary is a complete idiot…. What if there was a russian sub… Apparently the astute surfaced because there where no other assets around… This labour government will definitely be the death of this country. Why not light up our whole defence grid… Probably consists a couple of crossbows stationed at the tower of London our version of the iron dome I dare say. I hated the 80’s but we really all need to go back to the future. (1985) Where common sense lives
The most encouraging’fact’ quoted is that 3 SSNs were operational in November. That’s 50% of available hulls – if we can get hull nos up to 12, then we have a viable service again