Subscribe
Notify of
guest
74 Comments
Oldest
Newest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Bloke down the pub

‘ The F-35B variant has a feature that will also eject the pilot automatically if it detects that the vertical-lift fan has failed .’
Could turn out to be a faulty sensor giving a false warning. I’m sure there’ll be plenty of speculation but in the end we’ll just have to wait for the report.

Last edited 10 days ago by Bloke down the pub
Duker

Could be a clue they mention for good reasons as any engine failure could mean F-35B flights suspended till more detail is known.

Stu

I would imagine they thought of this. In fly-by-wire they have 3 computers in case one fails. So if there are 3 sensors, the system will only eject the pilot if at least two send a signal that the lift fan has failed. If one is faulty & sends an erroneous signal, the system should ignore it (and flag it for the engineers to replace).

I’m just guessing but it makes sense.

Duker

Its a combat jet not an airliner where they can have 5 computers for redundancy.

I under stand the F-35 has a single major computer which combines all the ‘communications, sensors, electronic warfare, guidance and control, cockpit and helmet displays. They would be a number of different processors like any phone or desktop has including graphics and mathematical units
This describes the next generation for use from 2023. The existing ICP is around 15 years old.
https://www.l3harris.com/all-capabilities/high-performance-integrated-core-processor-icp

DaveyB

Even the Chinook has two digital flight control computers for redundancy. I would expect the F35 to have at least a minimum of two as well!

Stu

erm…. The F-16 from the 70’s has multiple analogue Flight Control systems bud.

The link you provided is for an Integrated Core Processor dude. Is that not just to run the displays and comms? This isn’t the only computer in an F35…

I was referring to the flight control system having multiples for redundancy only as an example of how such systems often work, especially for events happening too quickly for pilot intervention (e.g. the flight controls of an aircraft deliberately made unstable to enhance manoeuvrability).

A logic gate to action an event should 2 of 3 sensors send a signal doesn’t require a 30lb computer. Heck, I’m not an engineer and I could bash one up that’s the size of a matchbox.

Quite frankly, if the auto-eject (100% guaranteed loss of the jet and potential to cause permanent, career ending injury to a highly trained pilot) system DOESN’T have a redundancy like this, then someone needs to go to prison for negligence.

Duker

“communications, sensors, electronic warfare, guidance and control, cockpit and helmet displays.”
Was a quote from L3Harris the electronics maker.
Of course you are correct on how it works for civilian planes and thats what I would have thought for latest military fast jets too.
But its what they say and could imagine redundancy in other means . Ejection seat is one of them.
https://www.militaryaerospace.com/computers/article/16709227/f35-jet-fighters-to-take-integrated-avionics-to-a-whole-new-level

Last edited 8 days ago by Duker
Cameron

I would like to think I can prepare before I’m fired out the dam plane, automatically sounds awful…you might not be straight and tensed up ready…

X

http://www.hisutton.com/images/Ru_GUGI_940.jpg

Linky…….
http://www.hisutton.com/Unbuilt_Russian_Spy_Subs.html

Another capability we need to invest in, but won’t.

EDIT:

Another new article from Mr Sutton……….

http://www.hisutton.com/Russian-Spy-Submarine-BS-64.html

Last edited 10 days ago by X
Duker

The last thing Britain’s stretched defence budget should be used for.

Phillip Johnson

The undercurrent here is that every F-35 that crashes in a vaguely accessible location is going to have to recovered. Get your credit card ready.

X

A parochial view on a site awash with similar parochial views.

captain mainwaring

The most sensible thing said here for a long time

Last edited 9 days ago by captain mainwaring
Captain P Wash

Don’t panic, don’t panic ! Morning Cap

Duker

Your ‘thing’ is the submarine service , No?

Captain P Wash

That’s Deep 32 I think?

Phylyp

Thank you for the nice article summarising options available for recovery.

The recovery of the Sea Hawk from a depth of nearly 6 km is impressive!

Cameron

Yeah but it’s not like humans went down, you could do that job anywhere in the world from a tv screen.

Davy Jones' Locker

The deepest successful salvage operation is the raising of the wreckage of a US Navy transport aircraft from the floor of the Phillipine Sea, some 5,638 m (18,500 ft) below the surface, on 21 May 2019. The operation was carried out by a team from the US Navy Supervisor of Salvage and Diving (SUPSALV) using the deep-sea research ship RV Petrel.

The salvage operation was reportedly carried out using one of the US Navy’s Cable-controlled Undersea Recovery Vehicles (CURV-21). The team’s base of operations was the RV Petrel, a deep-sea research ship owned by the late Paul G Allen (co-founder of Microsoft), which was leased by the US Navy for this mission.

The aircraft recovered was a C-2A Greyhound that went down with the loss of its pilot and two other crew on 22 November 2017. Eight other passengers and crew survived the water landing. It was flying a logistics mission from Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni in Japan to the USS Ronald Reagan.

— Guinness world record

Duker

I checked a few of the online ship tracking websites to see if there were any clues about the area north of the Port Said. I dont have a subscription so there was a limit to what detail you can see but of interest was ‘3 auxiliary vessels’ grouped tightly together in an area around 100nm directly north of Port Said. That maybe be unrelated and its out of the normal shipping routes from the Canal ( which is where a carrier would be launching and recovering planes) and if a guard ship is required in general area some sort of light vessel or tug would suffice, as its reachable from British bases on Cyprus
. Also I note some have suggested the area is much deeper water south of Crete , but that would take around 24 hrs to reach after leaving canal and the stories say it happened not long after leaving the Canal.

Captain P Wash

Still there.

DaveyB

It’s absolutely vital that an unmanned undersea vehicle is not allowed to be used by another 3rd party to recover anything from the crash site. This is especially so with regards to the aircraft’s skin, which uses embedded radar absorbent materials. If they get a sample of the skin, they will be able to test it and work out the frequencies and the power levels that the RAM works at. Thereby, allowing them to work out when a radar will be able to detect a “clean” F35 that isn’t using the radar cross section magnifiers (Luneberg Lenses)!

Captain P Wash

Yup, Been saying it since it happened. China will be on this in every way too, lets see how it all turns out.

Duker

China ? You do realise that it is the eastern Med. Couldnt be more difficult for China to do if it was designed like that

Captain P Wash

Yes China, You are assuming I said something here about sending assets to the area, which I clearly did not. China has managed to obtain top secret details on virtually every Military Tech, not to mention Industry for Decades. Now think about that for a bit and you’ll understand my post above. Maybe.

Cameron

Yep, China has everything it needs in that area. Money talks.

Duker

You have no more information than your namesake .. Horatio Pugwash.

Captain P Wash

And you do ?????

dick van dyke

My dear chap, didn’t you know, Duker knows everything ?

Duker

I dont .
But I also dont say this sort of h-wash
‘China has managed to obtain top secret details on virtually every Military Tech, not to mention Industry for Decades….’

Last edited 3 days ago by Duker
Captain P Wash

So you actually believe that China hasn’t ? you actually do ? dear o deary me.

Duker

They why are they building copies and updated versions of old Russian jets if they have all this tech.
Y-20… from IL76 updated
J-20 …Mig 1.44 development prototype
Some Russian military analysts believe that the Chinese fifth generation Chengdu J-20 drew heavy inspiration from or was fundamentally based on the MiG 1.44, citing similarities in its canards, tail section, and “duck like” aerodynamic design’

Sure they have moved the intakes to the side from underneath, but they history for that with the JF-17 which started as the J-7 Mig 21 copy which with Grumman help some decades back to moved the front intake to side.

400px-MiG-1.44-crossection[1].png
Ajax

CHINA’S NEW CARRIER-CAPABLE STEALTH FIGHTER’S 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43323/chinas-new-carrier-capable-stealth-fighters-canopy-is-its-most-intriguing-feature
comment image?quality=85&width=1440&quality=70

Last edited 48 minutes ago by Ajax
Cameron

China has all the info it needs,the USA has lots of anti USA military personnel who actively sell info to China.

Cameron

On another note 47 Squadron RAF, anyone know what will happen to it once our Super Hercules are given away oops I meant sold. 47sq are the UK special forces RAF Herc squadron with 28 trained air crews, will they transfer to the A400? and can that plane really be as great in the tactical role as Super Hercs are? And the Hercs are still in production after 60YEARS..We should just buy another 24 Super Hercules aircraft as we already have them and crews and very valuable knowledge and training setup ect ect, anyone agree? Or not agree?.

scribes

Not going to happen.. Anyway this is a Senior Service site, lets keep it topical

Cameron

Ok, What does “Split the main brace” mean?

captain mainwaring

cheers! down the hatch!

Cameron

Ah Right thanks, one more. Are these correct for ships- “fore” front, “aft” back “, midships” middle, “port” right “starboard “left? 🤙

dick van dyke

Nothing ever stays on topic here.

Cameron

Isn’t that a good thing though, I learn allot.

captain mainwaring

£100m F-35 fighter jet crashed into the Med while taking off from HMS Queen Elizabeth because the cheap rain cover hadn’t been taken off properly
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10236491/100m-F-35-fighter-jet-crashed-cheap-rain-cover-hadnt-taken-off.html

https://theaviationist.com/2021/11/24/f-35b-crash-cover-possible-cause/

Captain P Wash

The Mirror reported it was shot down by an F14 launched from Iran !

captain mainwaring

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/24/raf-f-35-jet-crashed-sea-plastic-rain-cover-left/

yeah, the earth is flat, covid doesn’t exist and the guy works down the chip shop swears he’s Elvis, don’t panic, don’t panic!

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/carrier-f-35-crash-potentially-caused-by-rain-cover-being-left-on/

who believes anything crap coming from UK anyway?

Last edited 5 days ago by captain mainwaring
captain mainwaring

And the Mail online shows the moment when the Iranian F-14 strike.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10255359/Footage-emerges-moment-F-35-jet-topples-end-HMS-Queen-Elizabeths-runway.html

I won’t believe such fake video? All British cover up!.

Last edited 2 days ago by captain mainwaring
Duker

Doesnt make sense. A carrier deck has dozens of people either on deck or the flying control bridge overseeing the takeoff.

captain mainwaring

It was shot down by a UFO from Mars with a plastic cover.

Total FUBAR

For want of a nail, the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe, the horse was lost.
For want of a horse, the rider was lost.
For want of a rider, the battle was lost.
For want of a battle, the kingdom was lost,
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

Last edited 5 days ago by captain mainwaring
Ron 5

Not many nails in an F35.

captain mainwaring
Last edited 4 days ago by captain mainwaring
dick van dyke

Have we found it yet

Mike

Nope…it was picked up by the Russian sub as it was sinking and tugged away.

Iqbal

Wow, $115 million down the drain thanks to just one crash.

I wonder if they will replace it. For $115 million how many A&E departments could be saved this Omicron Coronavirus winter?

Captain P Wash

Reckon you should post that on the UKDJ site, it would be fun reading all the regular’s replies!

David Graham

Agreed. Without sound defence there will be no need for A&E departments, or anything else. Those of us serving during the Cold War need no reminding of this.

Captain P Wash

?

Arjun

Those who experienced the cold war would know that it was an ideological struggle with the use of military as the last resort.

It was won ultimately not by fighting but but with economical power, the Soviet spent all their resources in the military and eventually led to economy collapse.

Jonathan

We are all here as well, there is no escape we know where you post.

Gunbuster

The way the NHS pishes away money . 115 mil could probably buy every doctor and nurse a new biro for writing patients notes up with. Mind you it would be a cheap dodgy biro and they would only get one each that had to last for 6 months…

Captain P Wash

Probably…… I was looking at the latest Japanese Defence spending Increase earlier. it’s quite an eye opener to see just how much equipment they purchase for such a low % GDP. yes yes yes, I know they don’t have V’s or QE’s but just take a look at their inventory guys….

Arjun

Japan GDP is much bigger, like comparing Apple with Orange

GDP year 2020

  • United States (GDP: 20.49 trillion)
  • China (GDP: 13.4 trillion)
  • Japan: (GDP: 4.97 trillion)
  • Germany: (GDP: 4.00 trillion)
  • United Kingdom: (GDP: 2.83 trillion)
Last edited 1 day ago by Arjun
Commonwealth Loyalist

Assuming the above facts are right, and along with the frequent comments on this site that Defense funds would be better spent on the NHS and social programmes, I am curious that nobody on this excellent forum questions why UK GDP is so low. This also came up when Australia was discussed, a country with a far smaller population. I assume it can’t be for the same reasons that the British shipbuilding industry and many others died after dominating the world. I read recently that if UK joined the US, it would be the poorest state per capita, poorer than Mississippi.

Yours sadly,

John

dick van dyke

Much of the UK’s wealth lies off shore !!!!

Duker

UK defence budget has as one of its largest components ‘depreciation’

Its really not spending its just an accounting figure for loss of value of assets used in business
its listed as £ 7.2 bill compared to £12.8 bill for personnel
Australia and US dont use that method but only show actual spending

Japan has done the opposite, to keep the defence spending at 1% of GDP for political reasons has moved many items into other budgets. Id assume they are bringing them back into the defence budget now

Britain has the second highest GDP in Europe, after Germany so I dont know where you get the ‘poor from’

Duker

That UK comparison with Mississippi or Alabama wasnt oranges with oranges, they used ‘adjusted’ figures to factor in cost of living , its essentially more expensive living costs in UK. But didnt adjust US states living costs
No, Britain Is Not Poorer Than Alabamahttps://time.com/3198225/britain-poorest-state/

Jonathan

U.K. GDP per capita is actually higher than Japan. It’s important to remember that a countries GDP is a function of productivity and is actual measured in a number of possible ways, so depending how you measure it different Results can be achieved. It can be measured as value of output ( total value of goods and services), the total value of everyone’s income, or the total value of a nations expenditures.

Captain P Wash

I think you simplified this rather too easily but I get what you are saying from the figures viewpoint.

Arjun
Last edited 9 hours ago by Arjun
Duker

Japan just excludes many military related costs from its defence budget to get to the ‘political’ 1% figure
UK works in other direction to add things to get over 2%

Jonathan

The nhs does not supply biros for staff. Which considering a pen is a vital part of every clinicians kit has always seemed a bit crap to me (losing or having your pen nicked halfway through a shift is a bugger). It’s why drug companies reps always give out pens if they want to talk to nurses ( nurses will always go out of their way to get a new pen).

Jonathan

i Looked it up you can get 50 black bics for a tenner so 20p each. So it’s only around £500,000 to get every member of staff a biro every 6 months or so. Bargain, I’m going to put it in the next staff consultation on how can we stop you pissing off.

Jonathan

115 million does not buy you a lot in healthcare terms, 1 million will get you around 12 acute hospital beds for a year so 100 million will give you an extra 1200ish bed years. That only gets you the basics of nursing care, hotel services and emergency dr cover ( the standing stuff). It does not get you treatment, diagnostics, surgery or drugs etc.

The problem is giving the NHS loads of cash all of a sudden does not work, it’s a people organisation and 1 nurse or Dr can only do so many interventions if there are no more Drs and nurses it matter not how much extra money you give in a year as your capacity ( amount of clinical staff in the talent pool) is dependent on how much was spent 10 years ago as that’s how long it takes to make expert Drs and nurses.

the government are now throwing cash at the NHS, but cash does not diagnose and treat people, health care professionals do that and that’s the resource this nation is short on.

BobM

With such a long production delay in securing the UK’s F35bs I wonder if they’d consider fleshing out a QE/PoW air wing with Harriers..mebbe all those UK castoffs sitting in the desert could be repainted in RN colours? Or have they been cannibalized by now?

Duker

Cannibalised , since thats the reason the USMC bought them

Commonwealth Loyalist

Ha Ha good discussion that’s all I wanted, sorry for being such a provocateur by nature. But I do think it important to notice that different countries try to maximize (like the UK and various other NATO countries) or minimize (like China and Japan) the official figures on how much they spend on defense.

And we all realize that counting things in US Dollars is not necessarily the only or best way.

Cheers

John