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Anonymous

Don’t forget about the women that serve within the RN at various ranks that also deploy just as often and have the same harmony time breaches as the men.

Sy

Was there any need to mention females?!

ex wafu

I agree, when females are equal to males…… (Cue positive discrimination)

What was the point in mentioning females?

We all volunteered to join and stay in under a strict set of rules, those rules are bent so often it is considered normal.

Anonymous

My daughter is in the Royal Navy and is a qualified aero engineer and had been on deployments, so that blows your response straight out of the water.

serving cpo

You obviously don’t know anything about the women who serve, as from my male point of view they are better than some men. 33 years done

Harry black maskers

Some are, and some are awful, just like the guys, it’s a real shame to say but there are a lot malingerers out there!

David Pickles

WRNS ceased to be quite some time ago – both male and female sailors work in all maritime environment on equal terms.

Chief

But not by satisfying equal criteria.. and that’s the issue..

Jon c

There must be hundreds of wrens in navy just look at navy news every pick is a wren sorry papers don’t lie do they

Anonymous

Wrens art exactly filling the submarine engineering billets are they.

Anon

No, and they aren’t being treated as equal either. Look at the fitness tests.

rach

The test is a test of your vo2 max not your ability to run a certain distance in a certain time. Men and women need different amounts of phys to hit your vo2 max. Would like to know under what circumstances I would need to run a mile and a half on a ship in 11 mins. Also if you are going to say it should be gender neutral then surely it needs to be age neutral can’t wait to see crusty old chief Stockers run the same mile and a half as a fresh out the box sprog.

Anonymous

Someone obviously struggles with their fitness test every year. The only people who complain about it are those who don’t prepare for it.

Sandy barclay

Rach,

highly amused by your description of “crusty old Chief Stokers”. This RN (retd) old Chief Stoker could not run 1.5 YARDS now I’m 73 years of age.

Very interesting to hear of similar gripes today as we encountered in our time (1957-82). Excepting of course the gender issue.

Thank you all for your input.

JED

All must be totally unfit for I’m 68 year old ex Chief Stoker; 35 years served, 20 of them as a chief. I can still walk the mile and a half in under 11minutes just as I did in my latter years in the RN. Not forgetting my 60 cigs a day and the tot of rum plus pints a plenty when alongside or ashore. Mind you the Pusser has never been the same since they banned the tot.

PO leaseman

I can only comment on the time I’ve been in, (18 yrs) and the biggest factors to affect moral I’ve witnessed are the reduction in shore billets, (however the jobs still exist, only now they’re filled by civilian contractors). The other being the types of deployments the ships are undertaking at the moment, constantly being deployed in the Gulf with the prospect of more of the same, literally the same deployments again and again, with a new Command having to learn the same lessons that were already identified 12 months earlier. This routine seems to wear people down and we all know how much Jack likes to drip. Unfortunately, these are two factors which aren’t going to change and with rate of people leaving I can only see things getting worse.

There are great opportunities in the Armed Forces, (such as AT), but again due to Operational commitments and reduced manpower Command can’t always support these events as they were able to in the past.

Overall, I plan to leave sooner rather than later and don’t know anyone who has left and regretted their decision.

Chief

From what I have heard women are part of the problem. Since they were entered into the RN proper that’s when standards started to fall. Its the squeaky axle that gets the grease. Wrens (and no doubt women in the RN) were always likely to give up and run.
Also its quite appalling to see how many men behave when women are around (even if most women in the RN are lesbians) its still part of male behaviour to live in hope and give credit and attention where its not due. Makes me sick.

Chief

Makes me sick the way some males act when females are around. They get more than just the benefit of the doubt. I cant see it being any different now. Its the squeaky axle that gets the grease and women know how to squeak.. In any occupation its true and in the RN it will be even worse. Making allowances, trying to impress, giving credit when its just not due. They even do it when they know half the women in the RN are lesbians. They just live in hope I suppose.
For every male in support there are 10 with horror stories of females reducing standards in the navy.

Anonymous

It doesn’t matter what sex the person serving is. Get a grip and stop making it a sexist thing you idiot.

Anonymous

Having served for almost thirty years I can’t understand what the gender of the personnel has to do with this story. Yes manpower is low and morale is even worse but can’t see how reminding us that females also serve will cure the situation. Perhaps it is time to pay comparable salaries to civilian employers and pay Naval Engineers both male and female there true worth.

Anonymous

I do believe that women also count as personnel so why mention them specifically. Tit.

Ex CPO MEA

In my 12 years in the RN ME I can count on one hand how many woman I looked at as capable and useful as part of an operational organisation! woman put man to shame in some professions but war time operations are not one of them!

Rob lawrence

Why should women get more harmony time than men? Paid the same do the same simple

Dave

Women have for over 20 years been part of the RN and not classed as WRENS anymore so there included in the figures I’m guessing.

Anonymous

Article doesn’t state just male why turn this into a gender thing.

AB(M) BG Finlay

Why is it every year we pay more to the government but get a lot less for our money. Stop giving overseas aid in hard cash, stop making it so easy to claim a decent wage on benefits, stop immigration unless they’re useful. Then we could have more personnel for essential roles. ie. forces, emergency services schools. 20 years ago we had twice as many active ships, and 20 years before that we had twice as many again. Stop the reduction trend and put more money in.

Anonymous

Someone reads the Daily Mail.

Laws

The story only covers half of the truth, the reality is it is in fact worse than this. As a serving member of the RN I am disgusted how we are treated, 18 years of service completed and I can’t wait to get to my 22. They have broken the goodwill of the engineers and enough is enough.

Ian

How sad that the navy’s leaders and our esteemed politicians over the last ten and fifteen destroyed the greatest single factor that was generated by a training regime that took hundreds of years of bitter experience to hone. Vandalism is the only word that can describe it.

marc

I left the navy last week and thank god I did as the day I left I heard about deployments being extended from 6 months to 9. Great way to keep manpower

serving cpo

Sea dodger I guess. If you read the first sea lords letter it states facts and if it works its a good routine with leave and pay. Good luck in civi street and I bet the words ” wish I was still in the mob” will be said.

pelboy

Don’t be to hasty to leave the navy shipmates. Not a lot out here. Did 22 years thinking that civvy street would snap me up with my background. Not the case. Think very carefully before you act.

Ratsenburg

You need to try harder then because that is rubbish

NOSTRIS

Pfft get your head out your ass, there are much better opportunities outside, only people that are staying are the ones who have served too long to leave, thick twats who wouldn’t be able to do anything other than this and of course those who are just too scared / lazy to leave. Everyone with something about them will leave in due time.

Anonymous

Amen Brother!! Nostris!!

Anonymous

Could easily say those that leave are too scared / lazy to stay as it’s a bit too tough for them.

Ex SE

Please shut up, just because you’re an uneducated idiot that had to join the forces for a career because you’re too stupid for anything else. I left the Navy 2 years ago after serving 10 and it was the best decision I’ve ever made. Oh and before you try and slate me, I’m not a fully qualified Paramedic in London earning 40k. Pipe down.

Ray Veysey

I think everybody needs to ease to 5, come on, you all sound like wafoos playing uckers.

Anonymous

Wafu – wet and f***ing useless. Just like your spelling

ex-RN-SUY

Having served over 27 years and having left last year; I have no regrets. The RN ‘WAS’ a great career and I wouldn’t change my past, but since leaving I have had a lot of job offers (with higher pay), do I miss some aspects of the RN; yes I do but I wouldn’t go back.

May eh

20 yrs ago all deployments were a minimum of 9 months, had to plan my wedding around the ships programme. As for RNR doing ftrs to fill gap billets, been going on for years, I did 8 yrs , originally planned for 2 yrs.. I left 8 yrs ago and the moral was low then, and yes chivvy street seems good but the wages don’t always match.

Hilary

When men served during war they were away for 3-4years at a time. In the 70s 6-9months was the norm. Stop whinging and get working

Ann

Don’t forget the new 9 months deployments for surface ships. Like that is going to encourage people not to put there notice in. Also heard recently that very soon no more free GCSE exams in Maths and English. You’ll have to use your STandard learning credits to pay for them 🙁

Ivan

What happened to “Join the Navy to see the world”?

Tex Marshall

I am in the navy and I’ve seen the world a whole 45 percent of it all for free!

Lew

Since when have 9 month deployments been new! When we still had a blue water Navy we travelled the world, re captured the Falklands, Kuwait, defeated the Serbs and won the cold war……had a bit of leave and got on with it!

Anonymous

I guess you didn’t bother then (their not there).

Ratsenburg

GCSEs ha ha. They are free in civvy street and are worth the square root of f**k all.

Stoked

I agree sending matelots to sea for 9 months whether you get time off inbetween or not is ridiculous it is having a bigger effect on our families who we already spend too much time away from who dreams these bright ideas up, too many chiefs and not enough Indians springs to mind. When will these people listen to what we want I’ve filled in enough surveys now to say this !!! Rant over

Tex Marshall

People volunteers join the navy/armed forces not bullied into it like in nelson day. Joining the navy means well guess what going to see the amercians do year long deployments, 9 months is pretty good having just done a few myself and was the norm some few years ago, people are to wrapped up in fluffy duvets to just get on and do what they joined up to do!

Simon

Get all them sea dodgers at sea or get rid of them wasting money on them if you get abled seamen if you can’t go to sea go home

Simon

Them up top don’t give a s**t about how it effects peoples lives may as well be a slave. There never gonna listen so what’s the point

Jerry

Aye, it’s a sad state of affairs ! 15Yrs done 7 to go!! Just waiting for Shafty to allocate me a last minute draft to boost my morale further!

Ray Veysey

I’d come back but I fear at 67 they might not take me, I can’t believe what they have done to the Navy in the nearly 50 years since I joined. It is nothing less than wilful damage and an example of how poorly we and the whole country has been served by it’s politicians in the last 50 years.

Ali Mac

9 months used to be the standard deployment

I didnt want to leave but had such a shit career manager that it was left too late for anything to be done.

Ive enquired about two FTRS jobs near where I live and the FTRS people havent even bothered to get back to me.

Lee

RN a modern navy with modern equipment but no longer modern pay. Can’t see how any can say it’s not the money. Of course it’s the money pay us more than what we can earn in civvy street then I for one wlll not put my notice in.

Tex Marshall

Most people in the navy earn 30k plus the pay is a pretty damn good compared to other people of the same age, gender, comparable, most people think they are special hence should get more than everyone. That’s just the sad state if people not the navy.

Harry black maskers

The AB’s are nowhere near 30k, unless your a diver earning your salt. If you are a lad earning some where near that much without your hooks then you have been in a fair while. When you do your killicks course they spout on about how you are a deputy section head (stokers) but at the moment with gapping they are walking into section head jobs in some cases. The navy tell them about all this responsility, liability and how they are going to be more and more responsible and that they will be expected to run sections, if only in the absence of the head. Then they tell you about how much else will be passed down to you from above. For that responsibility in civvy street you can get paid the same, especially with the leadership qualifications and not have to go anywhere! If you are willing to do the same and be away for six months in a structured rotation you can earn a hell of a lot more, and wait, depending on where that is and the duration you are away you may pay no tax?! Be away less, get paid more. Obviously being a mess deck ranger won’t cut it but if you are willing to work hard and go for it the rewards are there!

jacktar

standard deployment was in fact 30 months not that long ago.

jack

Because the navy and ships are run by high ranking officers it is difficult to restructure the training that officers reveive in Dartmouth. It Is the Petty officers and chiefs that run the ships, but because of the promotion structure they generally don’t go against the grain when given a unorthodox order or job to complete. Officers have become micro managers even to middle managers, and to some juniors who have more experience than the man with a degree, who might have military bearing but definitely no common dog!
high ranking officers leave the navy on full pay, pension! If I was given 140K to sit at home a do nothing we all would leave, I have served 25+ years and have seen massive change , it’s not for the better!
Apologies for for the small rant , as quick as a flash nothing will happen ?

Serving Staff O

Because the navy and ships are run by high ranking officers it is difficult to restructure the training that officers reveive in Dartmouth. It Is the Petty officers and chiefs that run the ships, but because of the promotion structure they generally don’t go against the grain when given a unorthodox order or job to complete. Officers have become micro managers even to middle managers, and to some juniors who have more experience than the man with a degree, who might have military bearing but definitely no common dog!
high ranking officers leave the navy on full pay, pension! If I was given 140K to sit at home a do nothing we all would leave, I have served 25+ years and have seen massive change , it’s not for the better!
Apologies for for the small rant , as quick as a flash nothing will happen ?

Sorry but of many on here this is a pretty lame rant – Why start with Officer training at BRNC – do you actually know the content and context, or what happens when they then go to their professional training and the various pipelines? I don’t even understand the relevance to the article or the remainder of your micro-rant?

So you’ve identified Officers have no common dog! Well done, I’ll introduce you to hundreds of JR and SR who also fall into that category. What I do find interesting is that we’ve lost the mentality of SR from not too long ago who could be relied upon to help educate and develop Junior Officers, using that said experience. A very regrettable loss.

Lets also completely debunk your urban myth about Senior Officers leaving on full Salary and pension – doesn’t happen!

I agree there are many changes and not many for the better but you know what, its says more about people that they just mank about it as opposed to thinking , using their experience and articulating better ways to get things done.

Al

9 month deployments are not an issue if you keep the promised harmony time sacrosanct (for everyone) and put in some good run ashores (long enough to have some fun and not doing defence diplomacy every waking hour!).

The important thing is to stabilise/rationalise the tasking plot so people can actually plan their lives and keep their promises to their families.

Too many yes men have put us in this position using the excuse that if we say no to the politicians they will cut funding… Guess what they cut it anyway and we shot ourselves in the foot.

Tex Marshall

Look at the bigger picture, if you want more pay you need more industry how do we achieve this through defence industry days at foreign ports I for one have spent lots of time at these and know that’s it vital to our small island country. Self obsessed small mindedness gets no one anywhere.

Anonymous

At no point did the article mention any ratio between serving men and serving women. Somebody feeding a sexist agenda.

Anonymous

As someone said, pay. It’s a massive issue especially as an engineer. Leaving now I’ll be receiving better pay, better benefits and I can see my family every night. Speak to anyone these days in the mob and you’ll find they have become completely disillusioned by the idea of the navy. Manpower is strained, yet they want us to complete the same tasks as we did at full strength. Unfortunately due to our training, we will crack on with it until the task is done and Whinge like women in a hairdressers to each other. Not turn around and say to the high ranking brass. No sir, can’t be done, and if you don’t like it suck it up and send the same message back up to command.

Phil

Manpower has been bad for many years in the Andrew. I did not realise how bad it has become.
Nothing wrong with 9 month deployments – if you get the Harmony time after, the trouble is that you don’t.
Even back in the 80s ( when shortages started to impinge on the service ) it was bad.
I personally did 4 years on a ship, with most of that time away from home with sporadic leave when you could get it,
Then shore based in Gibraltar ( H.M.S. Rooke ) for 18 months as a single leading hand. It was changed to 23 months and more importantly it was classed as ” Shore Time “. So after 4 years at sea,nearly 2 years in Gib ( could not go home ) I was drafted back to sea for 3 and a half more years ! That’s enough about me, part of the problem is paying the wages and the pensions of all us veterans. In the normal world any company that has some sort of pension fund has to have the money put aside in the bank to pay for it – what does the MOD do ? It pays all of its pensions out of that years allowance for that particular force ! I bet you that about 50% of the Royal Navy budget is spent on veterans pensions !
That is why the poor buggers that are in now are getting shafted from all directions… Their pension ( if they stay in long enough ) is a lot worse than mine – and mine isn’t brilliant ! ! RANT OVER…

akeei

so you are saying it is a bad hing to join the royal navy?

Topsy

I’m a submariner ( well for the next 2 months) They mention pay incentives blah blah blah but again nothing is said about put your notice in and say goodbye to Specialist ‘submarine’ pay, and for the ME’s Nuclear pay. It’s a complete joke being sent away to sea doing the same job as your oppo and being financially penalised just because I wanted to leave the RN.
#74daystocivystreet

Anonymous

The reason you don’t get the same money if you’ve put your notice in is because it’s called ‘Retention Pay’. Are you seriously saying you want to leave the Navy, but you still want them to pay you money to ‘retain’ you?

WOSWS

They changed it to Retention Pay (RP) recently to suit their purpose .

Chef Crawford RN

ive been in 13 years, 9 to go, cant wait, i am 1 of the lucky ones i get my pension after my 22 is done, i feel sorry for the younger lads now, joining up, they will have to do 20 years to get the full pension, and not get the pension str8 away, infact they will have to wait till retirement age, (68) before they get it, for example if someone joins up now at 18, does 20 years, leaves the navy at 38, he or she will have to wait a further 30 years to get their navy pension, and start back from scratch, so what insentive is there for these people to stay

Anonymous

Someone hasn’t grasped the pension. No one gets a full pension until retirement age. You will get a reduced pension. Even APS05 which as you haven’t served long enough so will automatically transfer to APS15, only gives a reduced pension until age 55.

Steve

Having served 23 years and have been out 13 but still supporting the RN I have seen the other side. First of all lets not diss the ladies. I was a non believer when first I heard they were going to sea however they may not be as strong as blokes generally but they meet if not excel against them in most other areas. Secondly training went down hill because of the so called reliance upon intelligent systems but taking away the complex training one had in the 80/90s has been subject to much debate and now looks to have gone full circle and OP faraday may just sort things out. The Navy is far better served to support its sailors for holdouts to what it was in my day and much more than my fathers and Uncles day when 18 months on a deployment was the norm. Important lesson is when you join free and single the life is excellent when you settle and marry things change, that’s not the fault of the Navy. I have had both good and bad times during that career but one thing and the most important one is you will never experience such a good bond and team ethic anywhere else in this world. Now pass me a can of red death please

sea captain

If you don’t like it, put your notice in, freedom is 8 clicks away on JPA! I love the RN…… says nobody

Serving PO

Easy to say when your on that much money hey sea captain! Getting everyone to do everything for you

Tex Marshall

But he’s right and As a fellow PO I will say the same to any of my juniors you join to serve the country if you don’t want be a part of it then leave it’s simple.

A Serving CPO

There are so many reasons that personnel are leaving the Service right now. Time away from home, lower wages than Civvy Street, gapping, shit runs ashore, boring trips (Gulf anyone?), the list goes on.

My fear is for the future. Historically those PO’s and CPO’s (that are so valued) all looked at their future at about the 12 year point. It was this point that a decision is made to either leave or commit to the Service.

Decisions were made on a number of factors such as Service/Family life, prospects of promotion and perhaps most importantly PENSION.

Under AFPS 75 most personnel could look forward to about a 1/4 of their wage in pension, payed from age 40 or 22 years service. This provided a huge slice of security over their future and was worth staying in for. AFPS 05 reduced some benefits slightly but increased others. Now look at the new pension scheme; use the online calculator (Google AFPS calculator).

Someone joining now will receive about 1/8 of their wage at age 40 / 20 years service – a HUGE drop and not the hook that it used to be.
Without some fundamental change to the pay system that could perhaps promise much higher wages later in their careers, there will be no reason to stay beyond 12 years.

How is the service going to convince these men / women to stay in past this point? Are they praying on some blind faith to the Service? (This is the tone coming from the upper levels of the Service. I have even heard them with my own ears saying that we should stay in to have the opportunity to work on the fantastic kit they have just bought….!)

It’s an employment MARKET. The services need to wake up to this and remain competitive.

Periscope depth

You skmimmers need to show a bit of pride and professionalism the mob has got challenges at moment doesn’t help recruitment when half of you leg irons use platforms like this as a dripping session. If your gonna drip about the job give it the common courtesy of mentioning the positives as well as the negatives regardless of what you may think the RN does provide a competitive salary as for your long deployments do me a favour submarine service most undermanned service haven’t been deploying for less than 10 months for over seven years now guess what though we crack

Anonymous

It’s your own choice to stay in . Stop dripping and either crac on or leave I left in 2008 work eight weeks on eight weeks off on merchant ships and earn twice as much.

Mick

Bejeesus, talk about dripping in the NAAFI queue! Loads of people ‘talk’ for years about leaving and they always ‘could walk into’ that 50k a year job. The Mob is sooooo crap and moan, moan, moan. Well bloody leave then. Why stay in a job you don’t like, has crap pay, crap benefits, and crap prospects. Stop dripping. If you have the time to drip you have too much time on your hands, 9 months instead of 6 on deployment? So what, makes sense and everyone tells me there are no ships left anyway, too much time in your individual cabins with free internet, try living in a 6 or 8 person hole designed and built in 1853, life on a ship was ace in comparison. Pay? try life out side and i’ll bet you get a wake up call and realise what you had. If engineers could earn 20k more on the outside what level of intelligence would it take to add up 20k x 8 – 10 years left Versus the pension benefits of staying. Oh please. Think about what you would be doing if you hadn’t joined up, enjoy the opportunities you get whatever and wherever they are rather than 9-5 life and two weeks in hotville eating tea in the local Brit pub.

Anonymous

Until the RN wardroom and White Mafia do 3 year sea drafts nothing will change. Engineers will leave as they get paid the same as admin workers and paint chippers. Until the Engineers are paid correctly the RN will continue to go down hill. FACT.

Anonymous

Engineers can earn that 50 k on the outside. There’s so much out there . Stop dripping and put your notice in people.

Anonymous

Engineers? You’re calling yourselves engineers?
You’re not – engineers attend university and obtain degrees, in order that they can perform engineering design.
People in the ‘engineering’ branches of the Royal Navy simply maintain and fault find equipment which design engineers have created. There is no engineering in the Navy.

You are technicians at best and your engineering officers, with presumably degrees, are simply engineering managers, with no design skills either.

You may refer to yourselves as technicians, but no more than that.

You have no skills ‘ civvy street’ needs or can use at design engineer level.

You are well paid by the Navy for the skill set you do have.

You are deluded if you think you are engineers.

By all means, feel free to rant and rave about my comments, but leave the Navy and see how in demand you are to engineering companies.

I’m sure you’ll tell me that you know someone who left and he’s getting this much more money etc. You probably do, but he will be an isolated case, probably working in an industry with skewed average wages such as the oil industry.

Calling yourselves engineers is like your mum calling herself a doctor, just for sticking a plaster on your grazed knee from falling in the street as a child.

Sand

I’m a Wafu and I can’t understand what your moaning about. It’s all shore time and cocktails for us. God bless the RN.

Jon c

I am sad that the best service is being run down by politicians who are lies and thief’s.
I can’t remember the last time I wanted to be in this job. time to go but I won’t be the only one expect a landslide of people who hold up the navy by good will and extra effort but I can’t see the new generation to do the same they have had no inspiration to be like that . I was told recently that can do attitude is not the way we work anymore. …..

pelboy

‘Hassar shipmate’. Nothing changes then.

Jon c

New pension will be the end of the RN once the lads realise what they don’t get we are all in trouble

Anonymous

If the females want to be equal and do the same jobs to the same standard as males the fitness test should be equal to ! So many times I’ve had to assist wrens in another branch do their job for lack of physical strength ! They get paid the same they should be able to do the same if they want equality and the rnft was equal then they’d be f****d ! Fact !!

Jo Hunt

How and why did the manning levels and staff morale become a gender issue? Grow up or shut up…

Serving PO

Grow up u little worm, there r also many times I have had to assist males in the rnft and a lot more than females.

Anonymous

Ahhh another fatty dripping about the fitness test.

Anonymous

For all those who keep putting the RN down, don’t forget that without the training and discipline they gave you you wouldn’t be able to walk into those millionaire jobs you have. You left, good for you, stop making me feel as if I’m an idiot for staying. If you tell a Junior Rate something enough times they will start to believe it. You left stop trying to poison what remains.

Ex Chief

While I was MBoS’ed, late career, I was only waiting for the 22 to finish so I could claim my pension.

Far too often, squadron (or other “dignitaries”) would come down the boat to find out what we thought of various measures or to brief us on the latest changes to how the mob was working and at every opportunities for questions, when people dripped, we were told that if we didn’t like it we knew what to do. Soooo many people decided that if the only response amounted to “put your notice in , then” that they would in fact dget on JPA and put the notice in.

The big problem was that they would still deploy and do the same job as the guy (don’t know about general service) next to them, but on a reduced wage. Absolute stupidity and a massive de-motivator

Tom Jennings

There really is no incentive to stay in especially when there changing the pensions all the time..

The officers are becoming ridiculous…. Its not like it was 7 years ago where everyone had a fun time yet got the job done.. Navy trying to cut bost down to quickly deploy ships under trained and undermanned.

Truth is the navy just can’t retain their people too many are leaving quicker than they can recruit… FACT

Anonymous

Engineers on board RN ships are overworked, underpaid, mistreated and at times misused. It is clear why there is no incentive to stay on and the Admiralty are aware of this however their solutions to repair these problems simply don’t appear to be working, if anything it may become worse.
A major incentive to stay in the mob, particularly if you are an engineer, officer or rating would be tax free deployments.

Jon c

We need a union

Jane Farnaby

My daughter was made redundant whilst in Copenhagen on the Albion, now in HMS Drake in mothballs. She loved the Navy. Served 7 years at sea not some sick bay ranger. She was devastated. Very dedicated they never offered her anything else just saved them paying her wages. She works for Lidl now. If they are short of trained personnel serves them right. Bean counters who couldn’t organise a booze up in a brewery

Anonymous

As an engineer on a merchant ship I don’t pay tax earn twice as much a year. Work eight weeks on eight weeks off. Single man en suite cabins. All travel paid. Much better food and private dental , medical and a pension. Not hard to work out what to do if you don’t like the mob. LEAVE

Anonymous

The ladies don’t make up the rnft rules! Some of us are fit! Some of us don’t go by the Nafi.. Only to get water! Don’t tar us all with same brush!

Jo Hunt

As a Naval granddaughter, daughter, wife and now mother of 2 serving sailors I would like to say that 9 month deployments are nothing new however, the prospect of completing one deployment only to be sent straight out on another ship to do a further 9 because there are too few staff to allow your leave is detrimental to all relationships….my son-in-law leaves next month as he would like a relationship with his wife and children!

JIM GARSIDE

I don’t understand what all the winging about 9 month deployments is all about. when I served in the 60s and early 70s my first deployment was 2 years far east deployment on HMS Eagle some of the crew left their wives pregnant and came home to 2 year old children not having seen their families for two years no paternity leave in those days
if you cant take a joke you shouldn’t have joined and as for the muppets going on about females, as long as they do the job good luck to them I say

time done

33 years done and not a warrant sad git, leave and let someone else have a chance, why anyone would want to do anymore time than necessary is beyond me. there is plenty of work out here just the RN think they deserve better. we are all scroaty bollox when we leave take what you can get work wise and take better as the opportunity comes along.
plus the merchant seaman stop talking crap, I’m now in the merchant and there is just as many complaints. I’ve never heard as many complaining sailors in this company.

Anonymous

Well then time done ur obviously not with the right company then. Get some dp time in and get on a dp2 or dp3 ship. Some companies are crap admittedly but find the right one and your laughing I love my job I wouldn’t give it up for the world. Not something I could have said about the mob

Serving CPO

Engineers engineers are they really the hardest done to in the RN I think not. No need to mention women in first post as not an issue ( get a life ) leadership from top brass or any of the officer corp would be nice but not going to happen anytime soon. Pay and harmony are great if you are under 25 and a juniour rate. 24 years done over 25 and a CPO the RN doesn’t care or want people who don’t say yes to everything. looking forward to leaving, the new RN is not for me or many of my current shipmates.

A Submariner

I’ve done 14 yrs now and it seems the further you go the more the blinkers are removed.
The higherachy, on the platforms, have become yes men in order to get promoted quickly. As a result they dismiss the crucial support network each member of the Armed Forces need to keep doing what is required.
Engineers are seriously overwhelmed both at sea and much more importantly, alongside. We are expected to do up to 11 months away, which as a result of the lack of man power, means we’re doing the whole deployment with no respite at any time.
Unfortunately though, when the submarine gets alongside after a major deployment we have to fall immediately in to a massive maintenance period. The same engineers that did the deployment are in the very next day to settle in to 12-18 hour days to accomplish a ridiculously unachievable level of maintenance.
The Financial Retention Incentive (FRI) mentioned in the article has so many criteria to meet that only half of the intended people took it. This is the direct opposite to the General Service FRI, which is open to Leading Hands that have only been selected for promotion. In addition to which the associated return of service (ROS) can run concurrently to the promotional course’ ROS, essentially making it a complete waste of money and an unforgivable smack in the face of submariners.
Most people I know believe that too much damage has been done. The higherachy are too narrow minded to attempt anything drastic enough to save what’s left.
The Senior Rates are tired of suggesting long term fixes only to be scoffed at. Too many officers are suggesting shortsighted and short term ideas that they haven’t carried out a feasibility study of, with the only aim of getting a quick promotion. The Royal Navy can’t survive on the mentality of superiority and the dictation of out of date traditions.

I advise everyone to get out while the going is still good and everyone else to steer clear of the Royal Navy completely.

Anonymous

Pussers cheesecake, makes up for everything.

Anonymous

I hate wren haters we work just as hard and get flack for being women …we joined up to serve not be belittled and told how bad we are at our job there are some really thick matelots that are more ego driven that can talk the talk and can barely get up to do the work that’s if they can be found

Anonymous

The biggest problem the RN has is sea dodging bastards and shit hands! The people leaving are the people who once actually enjoyed the job and put forward willingly for sea time, but standard dit for an ME. If your good at your job your too valuable to be sent 5th watch, if your shit your safer ashore in an office making 3 ringers wets!!

PO Stoker

Why has there always got to be some ignorant idiot on these sites that want to blame all the bad in the Navy on wrens? As a PO Stoker I’ve had to prove myself time and time again to my male colleagues, putting up with a constant barrage of comments about how I must have slept with the whole ships company to get promoted. Well anom, I can confirm that I stay well clear of dirty matelots, for this exact reason. Being promoted because I can carry out my work effectively, pass exams and boards, lead my section successfully and have the respect of the lads in my department, certainly didnt come by working my way through the naafi queue. And by the way, I can do ‘real’ push-ups too.

With regards to 9 month deployments, the complaint is more that they are back to back on undermanned ships. When LH’s are running your propulsion sections with no man power and can’t take leave for the same reason, there is going to be a drop in moral.

As for engineering, personally, I enjoy my work, what I don’t enjoy is being in a lower pay band as a technical rating while a steward is in a higher. Thankfully this is changing. I don’t like the stupidity of some (not all) of the management. We are heavily gapped, and the work load is increasing due to this, we are having to ask more of the junior rates. However, for those of us that stick it out for the long haul, hopefully we will get the opportunity to see this improve over time.

Anonymous

Love how it’s under manned in the engineering department with 60 plus people. Merchant ships usually have a max of about 6 . Some only 2 and they are sometimes three or four times the size. Hardly under manned is it .

ExCPOMESM

Don’t ever recall seeing an ME department that big… must be on a skimmer but anyway I don’t see merchant ships closing up for action stations and manning their weapons and propulsion systems in an emergency. Looking forward to seeing my first merchant submarine as well or at least one that doesn’t ferry cocaine around. you made a stupid remark really didn’t you?

Harry black maskers

It happens, I had type 42, 42 man JR mess then the adults on top

Bootneck

I am a bootneck and we are toppers for man power at the moment, so much so that if lads put their chits in they can’t take it back out. I understand cuts in a time when the economy is struggling, however cutting people’s pensions in almost half is not really acceptable. For those who signed up to a scheme to then be told that it’s changing and not for the better would not be done in a civilian environment as there are unions to at least argue the case. To that end I understand why some individuals want to leave, if you’re at an age, mid 20s to mid 30s with your experience and training from serving in the forces you are an extremely employable individual. So better money, regulated time and family cohesion is more appealing. I genuinely love my job, I love everyday I go to work and I intend to stick it out for the long haul, however if they continue to not keep promises and change things then there may come a day when I decide to leave. I hope that manning issues gets sorted for the Navy as we are a collective organisation and one does not work with out the other.