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donald_of_tokyo

Magnificent view. Congratulation, good work for all involved!
Looking forward to see them all in Japan, late this year!

Whistler

I must say the painting team have clearly been hard at work. They all look gleaming. Good job.

Jack65

Unfortunate that QE is wearing a patchwork quilt scheme……you would think the RN would be able to procure sufficient supplies of the same colour paint in this day and age.

Last edited 5 months ago by Jack65
fearlesstunafish

i wish they’d paint her in dazzle like the rivers….

3f680afd5edffbc56485fa7937795167.jpg
DRS

Yes that be great, but not so much the black and white perhaps the different shades of green gray blue. Looks cool and hides any rust 🙂

Rob

HMS Zebra

SilverArrow41

I spotted three crows nest equipped Merlins on the deck when the carrier left Portsmouth, looks like they fitted another one on board. Also I’m glad to see Harpoon on HMS Kent, along with the canister holders on HMS Diamond, but not the canisters themselves. Is it possible Diamond may be equipped after the exercises and these two will be the ships going to the black sea? Also good to see both the RFA vessels of the group with phalanx fitted.

Keith D

The RN Harpoons are all but obsolete aren’t it? The Wildcats carry Marlet and Sea Venom for sinking anything from Iranian powerboats to small destroyers and frigates.

RMJ

Against a well armed destroyer/ frigate the Wildcat wouldn’t get into range to deploy Martlet/ Sea Venom. Harpoons remain a threat.

DaveyB

I would never discount Harpoon, even if the variant is 20 years old. Being a small frontal profile sea skimmer (5m- ish) still presents a major headache for a ship’s air defense system. It has to be at the top of its game or Harpoon will get through and hit the ship.

Joe16

Am I right in understanding they’re pre-Block II versions though? No data link, limited/no capability in crowded littorals. It’d have to be a pretty empty patch of sea for the vessel commander to be able to fire at an enemy combattant…
The sooner we have the interrim AShM fitted the more confident I’ll be that surface warfare against larger enemy combattants (i.e. bigger than Sea Venom can deal with) is something we can be involved in.

Andy a

Why is that? What is the relevance of being harpoon pre block 2? Would they still not have a good chance op getting through?

Joe16

Less to do with them getting through, more to do with them not having the sensor resolution to pick out the real enemy target in an environment cluttered with a lot of other vessels and coastal features. Also, without a data link there’s no option of providing tracking from other platforms that may have better targetting resolution, nor of aborting the strike if the situation suddenly changes- as it is more likely to do in a busy and confusing environment.

Commonwealth Loyalist

Thanks for this, another good article, nice to see an actual fleet back in operation, in spite of the unwillingness of the government to spend more than a token amount on defense. For Britain to continue “punching above its weight” in the post-Brexit period we need this kind of naval effort, and a lot more. British forces have a great reputation and unsurpassed professionalism to call upon in order to help keep up the illusion that the UK is a real force in the world. I hope the present effort although rather feeble by historical standards will help,

Cheers

John

Trevor H

It’s not token.

JFKvsNixon

According to the IISS the UK has the 4th largest defence budget, and the SIPRI the 5th.

As for the comment that it being an illusion that our armed forces are a “real force in the world”. I’d suggest that you compare our capabilities next to the other country’s capabilities, because because beyond the USA and China who spend massively more than us, I can’t think of many other countries that can match our capabilities of having a nuclear deterrent at sea, whilst deploying a carrier strike group to the other side of the world, on top of the numerous other commitments around the world.

I also needs noting the the people of the countries who do spend a lot more than us on their military, pay a high cost. For example in this country we take it for granted that if we are diagnosed with a medical condition such as diabetes, we do not have to constantly worry about finding the money needed to buy the lifesaving medication.

Many in the countries that do spend more on their military than us, do not have that luxury. So never forget that there is a balance to be made.

Jack65

Quite correct. Unfortunately in the UK politicians have too much say in defence procurement and the budget we have is very badly managed, so we get the least bangs for our bucks.

RichardIC

This is completely off-topic, but 95 per cent of people with Diabetes have Type 2 that can be largely controlled with diet and exercise. Just sayin’.

JFKvsNixon

Off topic I know, but what you saying is wrong so it does need correcting.

In my job I meet a lot of people with type 2 diabetes, even if they do not need insulin, most of them need oral medications such metformin.

However, my point still stands.

Last edited 5 months ago by JFKvsNixon
Duker

Touche

Something different

This is one of the most powerful battle groups put see anywhere in the world. Defence spending is rising and, as posted elsewhere, that budget needs to be balanced against other commitments such as healthcare free at the point of delivery.

Sonik

I agree a balance of priority is needed with all government spending.

For me the issue is more a matter of balancing defence spending with global ambition, something that has been disgracefully stretched in the last two decades at the cost of many lives due to inadequate equipment. In turn this has led to a reduction in willingness to engage with the resulting cuts to funding.

IMO this arose mainly due to lack of political consensus on defence priorities, public (and therefore government) are usually more willing to spend on defence when threats are more direct, open and apparent.

Last edited 5 months ago by Ben Robins
Ron

Good luck to the crews of the task group. What is a pity is that no real mention has been made that at this moment we have two carriers at sea. HMS Prince of Wales went to sea on the 30th Apr undergoing trials. It is only a pity that HMS PoW could not take part in Ex Strike Warrior. That would be one way to to give the ship and her crew a good work out.

Does anyone know if the T45s will have Harpoon fitted?

JBPeckham

Yes, I believe they do have Harpoon as it’s OSD was extended by a couple of years to cover the capability gap.

Joe16

Yeah, good point! That’s in addition to the amphibious group that we had conducting exercises with our southern NATO allies for the last 3 months of last year! I knwo that’s no quite ssimultaneous, but it’s a decent tempo of operations.
As far as Harpoon goes, I believe that both T23s have it and someone spotted the launch frame (no cannisters) on HMS Defender, so likely that they’ll all have it.

Bloke down the pub

Good to see Chris Terill onboard. The Admiralty obviously trust him to do a good job.

RMJ

without a decent level of ASuW I wouldn’t call it a strike group unless the foe is a bunch of tribes. Against a well armed foe, the task group wouldn’t last an afternoon. Sorry but true, RN has neglected it’s core capabilities.

Jack65

Sadly, only 18 of the 36 jets she can carry will be aboard, and only 8 are ours. Only one UK escort appears to have an anti ship weapon mounted and that’s virtually obsolete. QE only has 3 of 4 Phalanx fitted and no 30mm. It is what it is, but we could, and should, have done better if we genuinely want to be taken seriously by potential adversaries.

RMJ

Agree. The strike group needs to consider it’s TTPs against a range of threats inc 2-10 Type 52 destroyers. A type 45 armed with a 4.5inch gun isn’t going to last 5 mins against an Udaloy armed with Sunburn.

N-a-B

If one is going to try to play internet top trumps, one should at least get an up to date pack…..

RMJ

An enemy’s N2 will play ‘top trumps’ and will simply pick out the weaknesses, there are lots. Type 52s are more than uptodate.

N-a-B

And Mr Udaloy? Do remind me how many there are left. And how many carry Sunburn…..

RMJ

Whether it’s an Udaloy, Type 55, Type 52, Petr Veliky the T45s and Task Group are ill equipped to deal with peer surface threats. What ASuW TTPs do T45s have? In the SCS 3-6 deployed Type 52s would cause issues. Point stands the EN N2 would find weaknesses.

N-a-B

There are many ways to skin a cat. Destroyers generally do not engage in a joust with other destroyers. Just a thought…..

Dave G

I don’t believe we are planning to fight a war on this deployment but even if things do escalate, It is not about individual ships but rather the group you need to consider. The fleet, possibly including t45, apparently does include harpoon equipped ships. as far as i have read, for most of this trip there will be an astute present. Add in the US arleigh burke attached to the group and there seems a decent ASuW punch for most circumstances.

It is also possible other vessels (surface and sub) will join the group at key points, especially if there is indication of active hostility. The group may even coordinate with a US carrier group in places.

I am not suggesting better armament on our ships would not be good but the CSG is not a push over and we do have allies to work with.

Duker

Trumps ? beat this …USS Ford navigating bridgecomment image

borg

I think that the Sunburn v’s 4.5 gun comparison is probably not the best one given the Sea Viper system which after all, is the main armament and reason for these ships being built. The 4.5 inch Gun does have many plus points though.

X

The main job of the Mk8 is to give the weapons techs something to do. It is less able to do that now it is electric and not hydraulic. 😉

borg

It’s a bugger though, some of those tech types don’t know they were born !

X

🙂

Meirion X

A15s on T45, can easy intercept old Soviet Sunburn!

Last edited 5 months ago by Meirion X
borg

Pretty much how I see it too. But still an impressive show of force after all things are considered

RMJ

It’s an impressive show of force, until a 5 or 6 type 52 destroyers turn up. The RN has some serious capability gaps that an enemy N2/ J2 can easily exploit.

borg

But actually we are not at war with them.

RMJ

We’re planning on steaming through SCS that they claim is theirs. Conflicts take weeks to brew, capabilities years to build.

Meirion X

The RN has vastly more naval experience than the PLAN!

donald_of_tokyo

I understand QLNZ has all 3 of the 3 planned Phalanx CIWS?

Jack65

She has placements for 4, but only 3 fitted and whilst the starboard side is reasonably well covered, there is a grey are on the portside. US carriers have 3, but the stern area is better covered due to the location of the installation.

donald_of_tokyo

Thanks, but starboard-side aft corner does not have a sponson to carry CIWS. The last article “https://www.navylookout.com/close-in-defence-for-the-royal-navys-aircraft-carriers/” figure also clearly show it.

So, 3 of 3. Fully kitted for CIWSs.

# not saying 3 is enough. But, I prefer CAMM to be added, or at least 2-4 40 mm 3P guns…

Last edited 5 months ago by donald_of_tokyo
Jack65

The starboard side aft does have a platform on which to.mount an addition Phalanx in the absence of a 30mm. Original plans had a completely different platform layout to that with which she was finally built with. The option is there.

borg

Yup, but only a sorry fraction of “Jets” though .

Cam

Hms qe as always having three phalanx. But was4 30mm.

Something different

F35s are still being procured and the carrier is still effectively working up so hence why she is not operating at full capacity. Also, compared to the proceeding Invincible class and the QE represent a massive leap in capability. Also, outside of the US and possibly China who can generate this much naval strike power? Russia needs a tug for its carrier and the French only has Charles de Gaulle is so can’t have year round carrier coverage. The rest of the world only has small carriers.

Mark

All this talk of poor weapons fit on our ships, lack of 30mm on Lizzy, no anti ship capabilities. These things cost money like one comment mentioned. We have 2 allies joining our strike or has everyone forgotten that, they both have anti ship weapons inc tomahawk or SM6 on the Sullivan’s. All the escort fleet has 30mm or better capabilities. As a CSG it has an awesome array of firepower as it disposal having our allies join us is what makes us stronger and yes we all want every ship with all the bells and whistles on be let’s be realistic. This CSG will be able to defend its self against anything it will encounter on its First deployment. We aren’t at war at the moment we are simply showing the world we have the capability in any conflict we will get assistance from our allies just as we will give assistance to them.
Be gentle first time on here, think the pictures are awesome.
Also didn’t realize you could join the navy as a coffee Batista.

Michael

The coffee bar is most likely run by the ship’s supply division, just as the ships store would be.

X

It will be run by the NAAFI.

borg

Unlike the USN ships with McD’s and KFC. lol.

borg

I might have been Joking !

X

🙂

I remember when SPAR took over the shops. Wasn’t the same.

Duker

Theres a ‘window’ on some for Starbucks to takeout. Certainly nothing like the whole cafe thing on QE

Duker

Thats the cafe , then theres the ‘real bar’ as well, called the ‘Queens Head’

Supportive Bloke

What a good moral booster having decent coffee.

Great thinking there: tiny outlay for much improved social.

Hopefully it further improves the already good work environment on board.

X

I like NAAFI tea. 🙂

AlexS

Tea came from a Portuguese princess and coffee from Italy…Should not be Rum instead? : ) :O)

KeithD

Agree. Many are far too critical. The RN is relearning how to operate a csg half way around the world, with the additional complexity of an integrated ally, and with additional challenges of covid. It was always going to be incremental steps. I think they have done really well and something to be proud of.

Ray

They are going with an Astute nuff said

RMJ

An Astute isn’t ubiquitous

Deep32

No it isn’t, but it is more then enough to cause concern and to put seeds of doubt into any potential foe! Sending two would have no doubt caused them to choke on their tea, but we are not, but doesn’t mean that a US SSN wont be operating in support of said CSG!! Then again they might not, that’s the beauty of an SSN!!!
They might claim that the SCS belongs to them, but, it doesn’t, hence one of the reasons we are going. A much more pointed statement would have been to drive the CSG up through the ‘Strait of Taiwan’. I imagine that would have caused a greater stir then a transit of the SCS!
I dont think anyone would disagree with the fact that our ships could do with certain systems to enhance their presence, but, little steps and all that.

borg

What’s the Chinese for “Ere, get off my land” ? !

X
抢占我的土地!
Deep32

😂😂 I will take your word for it!

DaveyB

After what the Foreign Minister of the Philippines has recently tweeted. I wouldn’t be surprised to a lot more Chinese Navy assets in the SCS. Things are definitely heating up between these two Nations over fishing rights.

CAM

Well done to all those involved. Looking forward to see the documentary as well!

Gunbuster

So look closely one T45 Has Harpoon Frames fitted and the other does not…that’s obvious and has already been commented on.
The one without Harpoon frames has a number of additional special fit aerials on the upper deck.
The T23s also have a fair few special fit aerials added to the upper deck.

In short…Not all capability enhancements go WHOOSH ! or BANG!

X

True. EW is wonderful. But there is a need for kinetic capabilities. And the RN is lacking.

Meirion X

“But there is a need for kinetic capabilities”.
First time I recall you advocate arming of RN vessels with live warpons that can be used, Peacenik x, is this a major change of your philosophy? Or have I misinterpreted your statement?
If true, will it also be potentially applied to Russia as well, which is to support, if the RN had to by nessery use warpons against a Russian vessel?
At least you have made a major
step in the direction of credibility on here!

Last edited 5 months ago by Meirion X
X

Stop being an idiot.

Meirion X

I am really disappointed Peacenik x, you are still behaving insultingly,
and very much speaking of Yourself as always!
My last post was a reasonable question to ask!

It also seems you are Not making steps in the direction of credibility on here!

Last edited 5 months ago by Meirion X
X

I have reported you.

Meirion X

It is You are the one that needs reporting!

Supportive Bloke

Unfortunately, on here, we seem to be fixated with WOOSHs ‘n BANGs.

Whereas……

X

No I mention EW constantly. The reason why whooshes and bangs get talked about so much is the RN don’t have enough things that go whoosh and bang.

Meirion X

Very surprising from You again!

X

I think you are very immature and deluded young person. Stop this childishness now or I will speak to the site owner.

Last edited 5 months ago by X
Meirion X

And again, again, You speak of Yourself as always!

I done No wrong, only speak the Truth about You!

Last edited 5 months ago by Meirion X
Supportive Bloke

To be fair, you do like your EW too!

I was being a bit tongue in cheek.

But we do have an interim AShM round the corner and now very, very good point and area denial AA missiles. So I don’t think the WOOSH & BANG department is going to look too bad soon.

Once we have Mk41 VLS on stream on T26 (hopefully elsewhere) RN ability to have mixed WOOSH & BANG options increases.

More the point is what ends up on the Helo’s / F35B / P8 for ASh and ASu – I am a little surprised that there hasn’t been more talk of using F35B for ASu torpedo dropping as its time to engagement, at any decent range, would be a lot swifter than helo. The torpedo could be external stores on the F35 as it is unlikely to need to be at low level or performing stealthily….discuss…..

Meirion X

Yes a torpedo would need to be on the F-35 external pylons instead, fitted to special adapters. The speed of a torpedo that can be dropped maybe a issue, shock of being dropped on water may damage internals before target is reached.
I still think the F-35 is not the right kind of aircraft for dropping torpedoes.
The Buccaneer strike aircraft would been the right aircraft for tha role, they could fly very low level above water until they reached the target, but it never was armed with torpedoes.
It was given the maritime strike role being armed the tactical Nukes to attack Soviet cruisers.

Last edited 5 months ago by Meirion X
Supportive Bloke

If the fall is retarded by the parachute then the launch height is immaterial as the terminal velocity is determined by mass and chute drag.

It is an area I have zero knowledge or expertise in so I am more musing.

But RN may need another delivery mechanism that does not involve the very precious Astute giving itself away by launching. Whereas it could just launch a signal buoy to code in a location of the sub that it is tracking. I appreciate that, at present, the delivery mechanise is Merlin.

This is why I am interested in the 5″ launch capability but also the rapid deployment capability that an F35 could add to the party. Also we will probably have more F35 on a deployment than Merlin and F35 does not have a gearbox that needs so much love……

Deep32

Hi mate, I don’t believe that the F35 is in any way a good fit for delivering torpedoes, there are far better options available – some still to come.
If you need to kill an enemy SM, then your own SM is the tool of choice, that’s its job. It just wastes time and adds uncertainty if you are going to call in a 3rd party to do the shooting. Also potentially could lead to a blue on blue scenario, detection ranges of modern SM’s are not what the films would have you believe, they are short, dropping a 3rd party weapon into the mix will expose both SM’s to potential homing from the weapon.
If you have to shoot from another unit, then as @Joe16 says below, the quickest response would be to fire an Asroc type weapon at it, hopefully by the time T26 comes into service we shall know whats going into their Mk41 VLS tubes!
I agree with you reference getting an asset into the right position to drop a torpedo asap is always a good thing. Helo’s getting airborne and into the tgt area all takes time(they cannot provide constant coverage for days on end, unless you have about 10-12 onboard), so, in the not too distant future I can envisage some form of torpedo armed UAV or two orbiting above the TG for 12hrs or more at a time, just waiting to be called into action.
My thoughts only BTW.

DaveyB

When we had Nimrod, they could lob a torpedo at around 250kts from 500m ASL. Which would be well within the low speed envelop of a F35.

Joe16

Yes, I think interim AShM is one of the more interesting competitions being run by the MOD at the moment for me. Just a bit too much of a gap in our capability at the moment.
As far as airbourne ASh and ASu, good question. I read that the Norwegians use Stingray from their old P-3 ASW aircraft, I’m hopeful that they’ll pay for the qualification on their new P-8 replacements so that we’ll be able to use the same. That will remove our need to stock Mk54.
I’ve seen a lot about various iterations of MQ-9B being used for maritime roles recently too, so would be interesting to add Protector to your list- particularly as a truck for sonobuoys and maybe Stingray for supporting P-8s in the Atlantic (GA are claiming a somewhat incredible 6,000 nautical mile range; no idea what range is with a useful load, but Lossiemouth to Iceland is only 1,000 km). Obviously, the RAF would have to put up some cash to buy the hardware and integration for ASW ops (Stingray, sonobuoy dispensers, surface searhc radar?), but I think it would be worthwhile.
As far as AShMs go, I do think there’s a case for qualifying Sea Venom for F-35B; it’s got a much larger warhead than Spear 3 and is lock on after launch, so (as far as I understand it on simple terms) is suitable for internal carriage as long as they can let it drop clear before firing the rocket motor. As a general rule, I do think that our sole fixed wing carrier-borne aircraft for the next 20+ years should have some kind of anti-ship weapon with a warhead larger than an ATGM. Mission kills of enemy warships are all well talked about, but ships at sea are moving in 3 dimensions and will have all kinds of soft and hard kill defences going off- sometimes a big warhead is what you need. Being able to reach out to the F-35B’s combat radius and then deliver an over-the-horizon heavy AShM (or land attack, they’re normally dual mode these days) gives our CSG equal reach and bite to the US and French groups.
Your mention of torpedoes for F-35B is an interesting one, I am both for and against. Time on target is, from what I’ve read, hugely important for ASW work against targets that are hard to find, let alone keep tabs on. So a fast mover would be an ideal delivery mechanism (if the F-35B can drop Paveway, then it can drop a parachute retarded Stingray). By contrast, sustainment costs (i.e. ops and maintenance) seems to be an absolute killer with the F-35- see Hushkit’s blog for a recent article done by an independent watchdog in the US. Merlin’s gearbox may require a lot of TLC, but I imagine it’s still cheaper per flight hour than an F-35. I’d still like to see a Stingray-based VLA with a longer reach of 20+km for a quick reaction delivery of ASW weapons.

Deep32

Hi Joe, have to agree with you, there is definitely some mileage to be gained by exploring the idea of using the MQ-9B to support our limited number of P-8s, as you say above.
Not entirely convinced about using Sea Venom on F35’s. Agree that we need something bigger than Spear 3, I would rather we used JSM for the heavy hitter role, especially as Aus/Nor are already working towards JSM integration for Blk4 role out. This would also give us time to bring Perseus, or what ever the next gen cruise missile is going to be called, into production. As ever, money talks, we just don’t seem to be able to spend it wisely across the MOD!

D J

With Norway getting the P8, you would expect JSM on P8 was also on the cards.

Joe16

Hi Deep32, if we get something bigger than Sea Venom that’s qualified for F-35B then I’ll be a happy man- the JSM is probably our best bet for an interim missile as you say. Still, the smaller form factor of the Sea Venom is attractive as a middle ground between that and Spear 3. I’m guessing if you can get 4 SDB/Spear 3 per station you could get 2 Sea venom, for a total of 8 fire and forget missiles each with enough warhead to kill a 500 T corvette. Is there a particular reason why that’s not wanted, or are you just thinking of prioritising the greater need (heavyweight AShM in this case)?
I had a bit of a look-see and there is some impetus for a VL-JSM too, which would suit T26 nicely. I think it is still a shame they can’t fit them internally on F-35B, but I don’t consider that a deal breaker- I can’t imagine they add significantly to the RCS at the launch ranges that we’re talking about. Plus, Norway has them scoped out for P-8 too, so another win. However, all this joined up thinking is likely to scupper it before it begins- too sensible for the MOD…

Deep32

Hi Joe, it’s not that I don’t think SV isn’t wanted on the F35. Given a proper level of investment, then I think we might well have seen a layered approach for AShM for the Aircraft, possibly even consisting of S3\SV\JSM. Unfortunately as ever money will play a big part, so my take on it is we will eventually get two, S3 plus another! I can’t believe that our main Strike fighter for the next 30 yrs will only carry PW MK4 and S3 as it’s only offensive weapons!
If NSM is chosen for the Harpoon replacement, then JSM should be a no brainer, as it would be a fit for both P8 and F35. I believe the Nor\Aus combination are looking at carrying JSM internally on F35. If not, then as you say not a deal breaker, but a very useful addition in capability.
Unfortunately the money or lack of it\how MOD decide to spend it will ultimately determine what we get.

Joe16

Likewise, when you compare the sheer number of armament options that even the Typhoon and Rafale enjoy (let’s not even look at Us aircraft), S3 and PW is incredibly limited!
Everything I’ve read so far says that JSM is too long for the internal bays on the F-335B model specifically, as they had to shorten them to make room for the lift fan. I think it’s about 14 inches smaller, so not an insignificant amount. Norway and Australia are both ordering A-models, so this doesn’t affect them. If Kongsberg can get the JSM’s form factor small enough for the B-model too then great, and the growing number of operators (UK, Italy, S. Korea, Japan, USMC) may make it worth their while, but it may not be possible to chop over a foot off a missile and retain range and warhead…

Deep32

Ah, for some reason I was under the impression that the A and B bays were the same size – schoolboy error on my part. Will read said article properly next time!!!
Yes, S3 and PW is far too small a strike choice for a frontline jet, especially if they are taking on roles from both the Harriers and Tornadoes. We shall see how things shape up when we get the first Blk4 aircraft delivered.

Joe16

Well, not an unreasonable assumption to be fair- and a difference of over a foot between the two models is more than anyone would expect! It wasn’t written in the article, so don’t worry- you didn’t miss it anywhere- it’s not something that’s widely noted in write-ups about the B-model, almost as if LM doesn’t want people to know…
Yeah, hopefully it’ll be a temporary limitation with regards the weeapons fit. Don’t get me wrong, I think S3 has a lot of potential, with different warheads/packages etc. but it can’t be sufficient to fill every slot, and that’s the problem.

Andy a

Spear3 could be the future. Swarm of 8 networked missles acting like the old networked shipwrecks! 2 go high to attack sensors and draw their fire, 5 go low slamming into the waterline all together with another jamming the electronic eyes and radar. Surely that is better for the price than 1 NSM

Andy a

Think the £500 million integration costs would make it undoable financially

Joe16

As in for the integration of JSM into F-35B? Thankfully we’re not the only ones interested, so we could share out whatever it’d cost. In fact, I think the Norwegians an Australians have already signed up and committed to it, which is a big win.

Jack65

But when the shooting starts its the WHOOSH ! and BANG! that decide the outcome………

Supportive Bloke

Or maybe it is the EW that silently……..

Gunbuster

The outcome a combination of all onboard systems.
EW is the unsung match winner. The capabilities are never advertised but the results are usually stunning when they deliver.

DaveyB

One of the best publicly available examples of how effective EW can be, is by checking out the attacks on the “Syrian” Pantsir S1 SHORAD systems, by the Israel Airforce. There’s quite a few clips on YouTube. The Israelis were using suicide drones like the Harop along with some surface to air missiles.

See Link below:

EXCLUSIVE VIDEO How Israeli aviation destroyed Syrian anti aircraft system Pantsir S1 – Bing video

The original video was released by the Israeli Airforce. It shows a Harop targeting a SA-22 Pantsir S1 system. The video shows the Pantsir launching two missiles to intercept the Harop. However, the Israelis are using some serious jamming, as both missiles are thrown off track as soon as they get near the drone. Which then passes through and destroys the Pantsir system. However, the first part shows that the Panstir was hit twice. It seems likely that one of the Harop’s was a dedicated jammer. Much like how I envisage Spear-EW to be employed with a standard Spear-3.

The Russians have claimed that the attack on the Pantsir in the first part gets through because of an inexperienced crew. They claim the crew in the second clip had expended their missiles, which is why it didn’t engage! Hmm, so from their statement, I take it the the two 30mm autocannons can’t engage missile or drone targets – interesting?

A ship’s active jamming system is an order of magnitude more effective that the one probably carried by the Harop, let alone those carried by normal fighter aircraft. It has to generate a much larger protective bubble for starters, to envelop the whole ship. But because it has an almost unlimited supply of electrical power, its power output can be seriously ramped up. Not forgetting that the ship has more space, so the “jammer’s” components can be made a lot bigger to handle the sustained power. Fortunately/Unfortunately the public will never get to see a ship’s active/passive countermeasures in action as the information is so classified. They have come on massively since the First Gulf War, let alone the Falklands in ’82.

Rob

I bet the USMC wish they had brought their jackets.

borg

Having to put our real Names up would reduce such abuse on here as it does on many other sites. Other sites have shut down all comments due to such nonsense.

Supportive Bloke

But some people might not be comfortable posting interesting historical snippets if they had to post their real name?

Really there as so few people who abuse the system (about four that I can think of) that it would be far simpler to just ban them and block the IP/MacAddress of their access point.

borg

It’s the same on the UKDJ site and a few others too. Some lord it over others like they own the sites. This place is so much better now that certain features were removed and I’d have no problem posting under my actual name personally.

David Barry

The spat above really does detract from an excellent site, can Admin not have a word with them?

X

Admin have spoken with Merion X on several occasions.

Meirion X

You are A LIAR!
I have Not had A complaint from Admin ever!

It is You that has had comments removed in past, including under your previous username, Steve Taylor!

It is You the one alway starts off with insulting remarks to my comments!

It seems you are resorting to the FBS tactic of smear!

Last edited 5 months ago by Meirion X
Meirion X

Not True, what x has said about me.

Challenger

We shouldn’t forget the Royal Navy is having to relearn a lot of these capabilities and ways of working and doesn’t want to try and run before it can walk. Operating 10 vessels and 32 aircraft on the other side of the world for several months isn’t bad going!

D J

In case anyone missed it, NZ Defence Minister has announced NZ Navy will be joining up with the task force (including passage through SCS).

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/125013434/new-zealand-navy-will-join-british-flotilla-on-tour-through-east-asia-defence-minister-says

No mention of what will be provided. There is a recently upgraded (in Canada) frigate or a shiny new AOR.

If it keeps going (& I expect it will), this will be more like a UN cruise.

Scott Hirst

Excellent article! (so many great pictures) The new paint has really freshened them all up and starting to look more ship-shape then ever. Good job!